I would say my early influence came from Dixieland and the big bands when they were, were grouped with country music but they didn't have a drummer. The Grand Ole Opry wouldn't let them have a drummer on, on their show so I kind of stuck to Dixieland who let the drummer do a little action and, ah, and actually played in some big bands and Dixieland bands before we got into the Sun Record stuff.

I think probably the instrument that you play probably has more to do with how you get into certain kinds of music. I can tell you, being a drummer, naturally he was more of a big band person. I grew up in St. Louis and the musical influences there were terribly different than they were in this part of the country. And being a guitar player I naturally was more into country and the pop music than the, than the big band.

Did you listen to blues?

I, ah, I listened to some blues, not a whole lot, in St. Louis there wasn't a lot of blues being played there. There were a lot of blues band in the clubs but of course I was too young to do that. Sometimes when I'd walk by the clubs I'd, ah, stand outside for a little while and listen. But, ah, I didn't, I didn't really wasn't exposed to the blues as much as they were in this part of the country.

Tell us how you came to Sun Records?

I, ah, spent my teen years in St. Louis, ah, in of course the kind of music that I was exposed to there was country and early pop: Patti Page, Al Hibler, that type of thing. And I of course loved all of it but, ah, I think the real beginnings go back to, ah, where I was born and spent my very early years in the state of Arkansas. And the early influences was of course the, ah, the church music. My father, as a matter of fact, was a Pentecostal minister and we had a lot of church, a lot of music in the church and it had a lot of rhythm to it although we didn't have drums in the church at that time but there was a lot of string instruments and piano and there was a lot of rhythm to it. And that's probably the thread that holds all of the rockabillies together. I think most all of them had early church influence in their music, I believe.

Well like Roland I, I too, had the gospel influence, started I guess in high school we would, ah, ah, listen to some of the radio programs and actually on Sunday night we'd go to East Trege Baptist Church, I thought they had a great choir and the, the rhythms that, ah, that they were playing, ah, were just something we hadn't, really wasn't used to. And, ah, the other, listening to country music too and I guess we were really getting a mixed bag of rhythms you might say from, ah, listening to guys like maybe Jimmy Reed and Bo Diddley early on and some of the things they were doing and, ah, the cross vibration between that and Elvis and the, the other side that we were getting just, ah, ah, started materializing and, and things started changing.

Did the New Orleans music, the rhythm and blues down there have some effect on you, the Fats Domino records and all that kind of thing. You told me you really liked that drummer, Earl Palmer who played on Little Richard.

I, I listened to a lot of Little Richard records and, ah, also to Fats Domino. But I can't really truthfully say that that was a big influence. I liked it a lot and, and some of the licks that they were doing I liked that. But I was pretty much doing my own thing by then anyway so, ah, I can't really say that, that, ah, even though I liked it a lot I can't say that it was that big of an influence 'cause we were already doing it.

I think, ah, like in the early days, especially when we started making records we, ah, had like, JM for example came from the big band era and, and the heavy drum beat type of thing. And I was more or less a melodic type player. And, ah, so we had to kind of come together somehow or other. I had to play a little bit of what he was playing and he had to tone down a little bit and play a little of what I was playing. And, ah, I think, ah, it went for the other fellows involved too not just the two of us. And I think it's kind of what happened. We basically were, at the time we were recording, ah, country music to a little beat but we really didn't care what we recorded if it was an R and B song or country, whatever, we were just trying to, to get a certain sound which I think we did accomplish. And I think it's probably the reason why our music, you know, we had to make some compromises and it, and it turned out great.

My crazy drumming had to slow him down a little bit, yeah, that was, ah, he was a good, smooth guitar player and here I was coming in with all this wild drumming and, ah, but I think that's what happened on, ah, some of the records. Like I think one of the greatest intros of that era of music was what Roland played on "Flying Saucer Rock and Roll". And if you have a copy of that you ought to pull it out and play it again. You can kind of see how things happen spontaneous because there he's got this smooth lead and yet we're doing all these loud cymbal crashes and, and the things like that.

Did you experiment a lot with rhythms, changing rhythms around in a song.

Well the rhythms that we played down there, ah, we really didn't experiment that much. We were, I was kind of making a transition from big band rhythms and, and what they played and going into the shuffle that was fitting what we were doing and with a heavier back beat and.

Can you show us a little bit of that?

Ah, well, if, if you'll remember this is the way the big bands would play a lick like this, [plays] pretty much all the time and, and basically the, ah, Dixieland would also. And then you'd have your country, ah, drummers that guys that were getting to play would play a rhythm that would go [plays] type thing. But our, the experiment and, and the things that we were getting was, was this [plays] back beat then I'd double up. Then from there we would even get down to doing the shuffle with both sticks, one on the snare and one on the, on the cymbal like [plays] get a little skipping rhythm there. And we used that quite a bit and then the rolls that we would put in between the end of the verse or something. [plays] Those were the things that, that just flowed out of, out of the mesh between Roland and myself and the other musicians that were involved.

I think, ah, actually JM we, we really looked to him to set the rhythms and do the rhythms and we just kind of fell in with what he was playing rhythmically. And, ah, tried to make it as funky as possible depending on what he was doing and yet the singer may be singing basically a, a smooth melody line. And then the recording techniques added, ah, like Sam and Jack whoever happened to be recording, usually Sam, ah, with the flat back echo effect, somehow or other just, just made all the different styles come together in, in like a Carl Perkins, Jersey List, people like that. Just great coming together I guess of many different styles. And I don't think, ah, we were all just trying to play what we did best and play something that fit what the other guy was playing and letting JM set the pace with his different rhythms and he, he, probably the most rhythmic drummer that I've ever played with. And he, he can almost, he's almost a one-man band.

You're being kind to me, man.

Well this is true. He, he ...

It's kind of a mutual admiration society, I guess.

He was a great drummer and he was just a kid. I know when I first met him I think he was like 17 or something like that. He, he couldn't drive a car yet. In fact the first session that we worked together, I had to go by and pick him up because he didn't have a driver's license. And the first session we worked together was with Jerry Lee Lewis.

Some of the rolly rhythms like I what I was listening to the big bands would go like this [plays] and then I guess sung what country music that they had a drummer on was playing a shuffle beat that sounded kind of like this. [plays] And when, when I came in that, that just wasn't my thing to do either one of them. So we came in with a shuffle like [plays] then with the, even with the heavy back beat we'd also incorporate playing a shuffle with both sticks as opposed to just on the cymbal we'd do it on the, if you listen like a whole like a shaking, we'd go [plays] and, ah, that coupled with what Roland was playing just, ah, happened to be the right sound at the right time.

I think another thing about JM, I'd like to comment on. He, ah, he basically was a kid, he, he was a marching band drummer and, ah, so he, he'd have some of the greatest rolls that you ever heard in your life and, and, when we started making these records he just naturally incorporated some of those rolls into the rock and roll records. And mainly, just like on the snare drum. JM didn't play a big set but it sounded like a big set but the rolls were very important I think and I think it goes back to his marching band days.

Do you want to tell about what your first impression was when you showed to record with Jerry Lee.

Well my first impression with Jerry Lee was kind of a strange one, to be honest about it, ah, it was a... an audition session, which they did a lot of that at the time, but my first impression of... physically was he had a goatee and this was before goatees were cool, you know and here's JW Brown, his guitar player that was playing a silver tone guitar and his arm was in a cast and they had gotten us up early one morning to come down and do this. I thought what kind of deal is this, but as we got into it and started doing some things, you could really the talent and groove caught and... and the rest is history.

How did you all come to record those Jerry Lee records without a bass?

Well, actually ah, like ah, JM said the first session we did was really ah, just a ah, was a demo session more or less, just to put some things down for Sam to hear because he was out of town, I think, and Jack Clement who was an engineer there called us in for the session and JW Brown was actually Jerry Lee's cousin and... and his kind of manager and ah, so it was just the two of them that had a- that played rhythm guitar and Jerry played piano or course and so the first session was just cut as a demo session and ah, we used the acou- acoustic rhythm guitar and piano and the guitar and drums. So that's the reason for it. Later on of course, we added bass as a matter of fact, JW was one of the first electric bass players in the city of Memphis and ah, once he got his electric bass, well he played on some sessions and then ah, some other bass players on it, but that's the reason for the early records not having a bass.

Did playing with just that trio format with Jerry Lee change the way you played the guitar and changed your style.

I think my style had kind of already been set because we ah, we were working with Billy Lee Riley and we had ah, we had... wha... wha...first we had a trio, guitar, bass and drums, ah, upright bass and then later we added a piano, but I... I'd really already kind of developed my style and it just carried over into the Jerry Lee records.

One thing that ah, as far as the drums and piano go, I've never played with anybody that... we play identical. He plays the pian- the rhythm on the piano is exactly how I play the rhythm on the drums and it was just ah, a natural thing and it was... from the very start ah, that's why you could some of these sessions in one take and ah, wouldn't have to be up here all night.

Also JM he... he ah, played a real heavy bass drum, which you just didn't here on records back then except on some of the R and B records ah, but that kind of took the place of the bass also with- and Jerry Lee, see he's got a tremendous left hand and so with JM, like you said he and... he and Jerry's rhythm were just... they just meshed and what I did primarily was play high string rhythm just to kind of fit in between that and had some glue to hold it together and it just seemed to gel because we all... we communicated without even looking at each other. It was just an unwritten thing. Just a natural combination I think.

Well my first impression of Jerry Lee, let's see, ah, ah, it was early Saturday morning that... that they had called this demo session ah, Jack Clements had brought a guy up from Louisiana and we walked in, I see Jerry Lee. Here's a guy with a goatee, which goatee's really wasn't' an in thing at the time, so I thought that was pretty strange and ah, he had his um, ah JW which was his cousin, I think or uncle and ah, he was the- his arm was in a cast and he had him a white silver tone guitar and that kind of you... we thought we had already silver tones you know, but ah, I was impressed with his playing and as a matter of fact I would say this, that Jerry Lee is probably one of the greatest talents that I've ever, ever had an opportunity to work with and when he started playing then ah, my playing and his playing just meshed it was something really kind of magical about it all. He played the piano the same way I played the drums.

My early impression, the first impression I guess, that Jerry Lee was ah, he was ah, an extremely ah, confident young man, actually he was about the same age as us. JM was ah, maybe a couple of years younger than Jerry and I was maybe a year older, but he was extremely confident ah, in his mannerisms and ah, his playing when he sat under the piano, of course I was ah, a fan of Mood Mulligan and ah some people like that and when he sat at the piano and started playing well, ah, you just knew that he was ah, a future star and the future wasn't very far off. He was a great talent. Probably... probably the greatest talent I've worked with and I've worked with some good ones.

Anything you recall about the session that resulted in a Whole Lot of Shaking, unexpected, unusual, different.

The... ah, I'd like to tell the story if we got time about how that came about. Ah, we were playing in a little place in Blytheville, Arkansas. As a matter of fact we were... we were on our way to Dallas, Texas to do a thing called the Big D Jamboree and we played at a little club in um, in Blytheville, Arkansas and ah, Jerry Lee did the song and of course we had heard the song because there was a record out on it by an artist by the name of Roy Hall and I think that there had been records earlier, which I hadn't heard but ah, Jerry Lee did it and we did the song and... and we got such a tremendous response, I guess we must have had to play it at least a dozen times that night, so we all agreed on the way to Dallas, we talked about it, that ah, the minute we got back to Memphis, we should ah, go to the studio and... and record it and ah, of course we did and the rest is history.

How close was the recording to the way you would play in the clubs?

Oh, just probably ah real close. We... we only knew one way to play and usually ah, most of... a lot of Jerry Lee's records were ah, first cut items um, just, you know, he'd just start off a rhythm on the piano and JM would jump in on the drums and I'd fall in and we did just whatever came natural and we never at the beginning what we were going to do, we would just ah, whatever Jerry Lee did we just went along and tried to enhance it and it... it worked out really great.

Can you show us a little bit on the guitar about what kind of playing you did to fit in with what was going on there.

Well ah, let's go back like, Jerry Lee and JM's rhythm styles were so similar. Like Jerry Lee was really great. He had the greatest left hand of any piano player I had ever seen at that point and of course, JM's rhythms were right in with them and ah, the two of them could play and they sounded like a big band, just ah... just ah the two of them. They really didn't need anybody else, but ah, so I had to find a place to fit in there. So I didn't play a lot on the bass strings because that would... that would clash with what he was doing. So I found just a high string rhythm lick that kind of fit in between... in between what they were... kind of furnish to glue that held it together and then ah, when it came to the solos, well Jerry Lee would usually do one and then he'd ah, call on me to do one. We never knew for sure, sometimes he'd call on me to do one first and sometimes he'd leave me out and sometimes he'd leave himself out. We just never knew, but ah, but the high string rhythm thing kind of fit in between ah, kind of held it together.