I grew up in uptown New Orleans, Louisiana where my father was a barber, and the musicians used to come around and jam on weekends. What they were doing, actually push all the ah, barber chairs on the side, and what they would do -- get together and have a jam session. We lived in the back of the house, so quite natural I grew up with the music. At that time the parade bands was very, very active. I remember the great Mr. Willy Harper, who is actually 92 years old at the present time, I'm instrumental in working with him down at Preservation Hall at the present time. And he always excited me because he was such a great musician, and he looked the part, he was always a gentleman. I think that was called the Tuxedo Brass Band. The bands used to come around -- for instance in those days was no radio. What they used to do was actually advertise on the back of the truck, an open truck. And I used to follow the trucks all around, and maybe 10 or 15 blocks around the city as far as I could walk... walk back to the house. So that's the way -- that is actually the way I was introduced to the music business. I was born with it.

Your trumpet teacher taught Louis Armstrong didn't he?

Yeah, Mr. ah, Peter Davis, the late Mr. Peter Davis, yeah, he was instrumental in teaching me too. Because what actually happened, he used to get his hair cut at my father's barber shop and he told my father, he said, Louis, one day I'm going to take that kid. And sure enough he did. And I thought he was the worst man in the world because I remember playing parade one time and I made a mistake and he slapped the trumpet and blood came everywhere. I thought he was the worst person in the world. But come to find out later on that actually paid off. He meant what he said and he made me a real fine musician.

What about the music scene in New Orleans. I know that you went to work on a riverboat.

Yes, I was working on the river boat about 16, 17 years old, I was playing with the best band at the time -- the name of the band was Fats Pichon. Those were reading bands in those days. Mr. Davis had actually prepared me for all those things that I would come across like reading music, different types of music, because when we got up to St. Paul, Minnesota it was music in two, four and six, eight. So quite natural and, I was always instrumental by the great great himself, the late Louis Armstrong. So what happened at that time, I was just really fixed for it, because I had a bad habit. I liked to eat and I had three sisters. And at that time my mother and father were separated, so like I was the man of the house. So I took over from that.

When did you start your first band?

Oh, I was in the service when I learned how to write music. And ah, I was told A the guy who used to sleep next to me, his name Abraham Malone, I was in 196 AGF band. And he say, Bartholomew, you can play but I think you would do much better or go further and have two things to dwell on this, in case of one. So why don't you learn how to write. So man time, in the meantime that was a Saturday, and I said, oh man, Malone, I want to go to town on this pass. And he said, you'll have a lot of time for that. So he wrote me out some different charts and I took it from there, and I had a lot of time, because I was in the army for three years. And when I got out I wrote my own book. In 1947 I started a band.

…at least the recordings that we hear now, in a direction that was more bluesy. Can you talk about the music that was in New Orleans then and how the band developed in the direction it did?

Well, what actually happened, in the service we were actually playing nothing but jazz. There was no such thing as rhythm and blues in the... in the service. We played some blues tunes, like from Count Basie or that type of thing, Jimmy Ruffin who sang with bass and that type of thing. But I wasn't introduced to anything until I heard the late Louis Jordan. And what actually happened, at that time, ah, I never did really believe in records until I got to the point where I said, well, you know, the people actually like what Jordan is doing. He had the whole world, I think at that time. So I started writing the same things and also trying to sing. I wasn't no singer. Never professed to be one. But to make a living I had to do something. So I said, well, the best thing for me to do is start singing some of these Louis Jordan tunes. And that was happening with me, and I had the band arrange all... all this stuff. But I had three horns, besides Louis always carried one horn. So what happened I said, you know, well, this is going to be a pret- pretty good sound. So what I did, I made it all sound in unison so we'd get a big sound. And everybody in New Orleans was talking about what a great band that is. Then I was lucky enough to get great people like B. Allen, Alvin Rathe Tyler, the great Earl Palmer, the great Ernest McLan. All my musicians were great because we would rehearse every day, and what actually happened, every day we would come up with something new to make it more rhythmic. And ah, that's what was actually happening was a real good, good beginning for us. Because we could actually feel our music too. And we were drawing all kind of crowds, at least three or four thousand people on holidays, during the week we would draw maybe a thousand. We were doing very well at that time with the band.

You were playing in clubs where people were dancing.

I was working in clubs, I was working at different ah, dance halls. Many, many year ago I used to have like all the Catholic Schools would have a hall in it. And every Monday in the... in the city of New Orleans we played from one hall to the other. And that would happen on Monday nights. We'd be at, just to name a few, St. Catherine, which is across the street from now Alvatrairian Hospital in New Orleans, Louisiana. There's Lamore. Plus St. Catherine moved and what actually happened, and for many, many year, I can't name them all at the present time. They all were in the archdiocese of New Orleans, Louisiana. And that would give us that extra Monday. Plus when the weekend would come we'd play different places like I was playing like in Ponce de Tour, Armand, Louisiana, Baton Rouge. Most... most people don't know what I'm talking about but all this is Louisiana. And ah, what actually happened at that time, we were working Friday, Saturdays, and Sundays all in different places. But we were very busy, not to leave out Miss... Mississippi, Biloxi, Gulf Port, Passagoola, Mobile, Alabama, and all the college towns, we were very popular. And in what happened, I happened to be working in Houston, Texas for the late Don Roby, and I got ah, introduced to the late Lou Ch... not late Lou Churn, he's not late yet. And he ah, sat around for a week before he say anything to me, because I had come up with quite a few instrumentals that we had just put together and I just say it sound pretty good. No name to it, whatever, what have you, but what went on, I said, well, Luke said... well, what happened Bartholomew, I never did hear this music before. And I said, well, what actually happened, I put it together, you know, just a little ditty and you know, something that swings. So he said, do you think you can get somebody to put a nickel on one of your records? Five cents at that time. So I said, um, I don't know, but I can try. So sure enough, a month later he came to New Orleans, Louisiana and knocked on my door, and said, I'm ready. So during that same time we went out, we found Fats Domino, and I was instrumental in working with Jules King. So we went in the studio a week later, we got time -- ah, he gave us time to get our stuff together, and went in the studio and cut with Cosmo came out with two million sellers the first night.

When you were in New Orleans during this period of the late '40s to the early '50s, were you playing for white audiences too much or were the scenes really very segregated?

Well, during that time, 99 percent of them was black. Then later on, ah, I would say in the '50s, I would say we graduated, started playing the white kids. We played at a club, club they used to call Valencia, New Orleans Country Club, Lakewood Country Club, just to name a few. And then we graduated to some of the clubs down in Mississippi, Alabama, all the college towns and things like that. Yeah, we were very popular with that.

Was that after the rock and roll thing started to come in or was that actually happening before?

I would say that actually happened when the rock and roll thing was coming in. Because the kids would be out on the dance floor. We would be playing different things. They couldn't even dance. Ah, the white kids didn't even know what the hell was going on. They were still going with "Three Little Fish" that type of thing, which I had worked on the boat for many, many years, they didn't even know how to dance. So they graduated with that, then ah, come "American Bandstand," which we were very instrumental in playing on "American Bandstand" that was with Fats. And ah, from that day on, I think that, the kids got together and they all say, what the hell with this white and black thing, we all going to get together and have a good thing, and just learn how to dance.

What about going back a little bit about that first Fats Domino record "The Fat Man." I know you must have seen something real special there and I wonder if you could tell us what it was that you saw.

Well, we walked into this club, and it was called the Hideaway Club, and I've told this story a million times before. But for you, I'll tell you one more time. It goes like this. We walk into the Hideaway Club, the place is packed and jammed with small rooms. Fats is on the piano, I... I had never met Fats before. The whole place is rocking. And he's playing the tune that most of the piano players played during that time. It was called the "Jungle Blues." They were talking about you know, being in the penitentiary, you know, all that kind of stuff, you know. But the music was damn good.

I was asking you about what it was when you first encountered Fats Domino, I know you saw and heard something there that you thought was really unusual and I wondered what it was.

As I mentioned before, ah, I've actually said this over a million times, so it's a million and two right now. When I first heard Fats Domino he was at the Hideaway Club, that was downtown New Orleans, Louisiana. We walked into the place, Lou Judd was with me, and the guy who owned the Imperial Record Company at the time. The whole place was rocking, and I say, this guy has got it. And what actually happened, he gave us some time to get our material together, and Fats was playing what is called "The Jungle Blues," better known as "The Fat Man." So at the time we had a radio show on in New Orleans, Louisiana, it was very, very popular. I think it was around the United States, I say New Orleans, because I... the... the tune was... I mean the radio program was "The Fat Man." We'd better do that again, huh?

Well, at the time we walked into the place ah, with Fats Domino and the whole place was rocking. Oh man, the whole place was just, everybody in the place was having fun. So Lou said, we've got to have this guy. So sure enough, we signed him, brought him to the studio a week later, and the rest is history. We made "The Fat Man," and we also recorded a young lady by the name of Gail -- oh boy, I'm getting all mixed up. We also recorded a young lady by the name of Jewel King. And we did a tune called "Three Times Seven" and both of them were million sellers at that time. And from that day on, Fats went on to 22 million sellers in a row.

You said you walked in and the place was rocking. I know the time here, the rhythm here in the music, it started to change at this time, it did start to get into rock.

What actually happened, ah, they used to call music, at that time, we had... rhythm and blues, country and western, and pop. So I felt Fats Domino was rhythm and blues, because 99 percent of the black people they were bluesy, they felt that music. I think the same is still today, they call it rock and roll. So what actually happened at that time, so we wanted to more or less just bring out the best in Fats Domino, he was at home doing that type of thing. But later on, we actually sweetened his background some when we went to the thing called, "Ain't That A Shame." And when we sweetened that one, we found out that we would do what is more or less called crossover in this business. Rhythm and Blues would only sell at that time maybe a hundred thousand records but we found out the guys were buying pop, they were selling like a million. So we crossed over and we went to "Ain't That A Shame" and we never looked back and we had 22 million in a row after that.

As we got into the mid Fifties, some of the sound on the records changed. The bass got bigger and heavier. You used to put some baritone sax, maybe some electric guitar on top of the string bass.

What I used to do I used to use the string bass because we wasn't, ah, using any, ah, electric bass at that time. To be frank I don't think we actually had any real good bass players in town playing the electric bass. So what I used to do is double the guitar, like I used to use two guitars, I'd double the guitar with the bass to get that sound and have the guitar tune all the way down the bass as far as he could get and I would come up with that. And later on, sure, quite naturally, we had the electric bass and that carried the background first because it's like building a house. If you don't have a good foundation, your rhythm section, people with all the horns are pretty, that is your decoration. But if you don't have a good drummer, a good bass player, a good piano player, a good guitar, they don't dance by the horns, they dance by that. The horns are decoration. You have to have a good foundation. And I always believe in that. And I think New Orle… New Orleans music started with a good foundation. You can see a, a band out there on the streets and they're dancing by that beige drum, and the horns is doing the decoration but everybody is shaking and that second line goes with that.

What was it about Earl Palmer's style that contributed to that? Did you think that there was a lot of New Orleans parade drumming in his music?

To explain Earl that is a million dollar question. Earl Palmer one of the greatest drummers of all time, number one, Earl was a dancer. Most people don't know that so he was born with rhythm. He's one of the best, got one of the best ears in the world plus he's a reading drummer plus he's a finished drummer. Earl Palmer is one of the greatest drummers of all time. Most people will say that he one of the greatest rock and roll drummers but they had, remember that one thing, Earl Palmer had a bad habit, he liked to eat. And the money was with the rhythm and blues so that's where he stayed at.

Any thing.

Lee Allen came here from Kansas City, didn't he?

Lee Allen came from Denver, Colorado. He was going to Xavier, Xavier College at the time. And he would come around the Rhythm Club and set in with us. And he could play. And where he got his soul from we still don't know because in, in, Denver, they didn't have soul for musician. Now where Lee come from, we don't know. So I think maybe it might had had somebody from New Orleans, Louisiana was visiting his house. Because Lou rea… I mean because Lee really could play. Always, when he hit the bandstand it was just, he give 100 percent. And that's what I liked about, about Lee. Same goes for Al.

Solo, like little compositions in themselves, they were so related to the record.

Well, that's right because Lee could take a solo and just turn the whole thing around. I remember one time he played a solo on one of my record dates and I actually took the solo and put some words to it and sold 300 thousand copies on it and the tune was called "Don't Be That Way". And he told me, he said, Bartholomew, don't you be that way. That's the one in the shop.

Was "Lordy Miss Claudie" an important record for you in terms of crossing over, making a crossover?

Well there's a big story behind "Lordy Miss Claudie". Ah, I was working out in Kenner, Louisiana which is where the airport is right now. What actually happened there, we weren't working that night so Larry came in, he want to, you know, sat in, sing a couple of song. I say, sure, come on Larry, come on, sit in. So he sang a couple of tunes and things. And I say, you know, you sound real good. But at that time Lou Chudd and I had gone our separate ways. So what happened, I ask him, I was hanging around the studio just catching arrangement from Cosmo and things like that. So Cos said different people were coming in. So I told Larry, why don't you come on down to New Orleans. He didn't even know how to get to Canal and Rampart. But, ah, what happened, he finally got down there. And we started working. He had the tune - "Lordy Miss Claudie". It was a pun. We worked on it. We worked on it. We worked on it. And I was giving my guitar player hell, Mike Land, because I wanted to get some sort of a rhythm going and he de dum de dum, de dum de dum. I say, man, that's, that's, that ain't nothing. What the hell you get that thing from? I said, but, but he really was a jazz guitarist, you know, he wasn't feeling too many other things. So you go with what you got to go with. He didn't have nothing else, I had to go with that. So I said, sound like shit but I mean I go and take it, you know. So then what happened then, we did a couple of takes. I didn't like it. Knock on the door, here comes Fats Domino. Fats say, well I want to play. So Slammy Rollin, piano, a million seller, next thing is history - Lord, bam. So in the meantime I'm freelancing, so Lou Chudd calls me on the phone, he wants me to work for him now. I got two big records going at the present time; I got Shirley and Lee going with "I'm Gone" and I got Larry Price, "Lordie Miss Claudie". And I'm getting paid weekly, bam, weekly. Seventeen hundred dollars all I got for "Lordie Miss Claudie" and no recognition from Larry Price. Not that I really need it but I mentioned it and I'll say it again. But it was just one of those type of things. He didn't even know how to get to Canal and Rampart knowing they all, but, but after that, he migrated to, ah, New, to New York City and, ah, he was very successful. I like a lot of things that he did with his new band because he always had the talent and I wished him well and I think he wished me well.

Are there certain people that came up out of the period that they call rhythm and blues but you think of as fathers of rock and roll, somebody like Lord Brown or somebody like Joe Turner or Professor Longhair?

Ah, to answer that question, ah, I think Professor Longhair was one of the greatest influence on New Orleans music piano players. You had another guy who played in the same vain, Toots, the late Toots Johnson. I don't think Toots, I think his last name, I can't, I mean he was Toots, the great Toots.

Washington.

Washington, yeah, and then you had, well I'm getting there was also great Toots Johnson also in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Most, most people don't know that's why I'm getting that, the mayor. But actually, ah, I would say Professor Longhair and the great, you can't forget the great Smiley Lewis, one of the greatest troubadour of all time and singer. I think Smiley actually was one of the greatest of all singers because he, he didn't need a microphone and he was an authentic singer who could bring out the best in anything. He'd walk in a club and break up a club too. I always called Smiley, the late Smiley Lewis, a bad luck singer, because he had very good material, not because I wrote the material, because I was very lucky when I came up with some of the material. I wrote "I Hear You Knocking". It was covered by Gail Storm, that killed him dead. They also had the other song "One Night" by the late El, late Elvis Presley. It killed him also. The, just some of that "Blue Monday", that's the name, three big tunes that Smiley had recorded first and people recorded after him. So I always called him a bad luck singer. But I remember him being a troubadour for many, many years because he used to come around by my father's barber shop and just stand outside and sing. When people would barb., come out of the barber, would drop nickels in his hat at the time. Remember I said nickels, there were no quarters at that time, a nickel.