Like, when we first started, you know, it was like, uh, B.B, you know, he's the one who taught me about, B.B King? My mother raised, you know, she didn't raise him, you know, but he came up with us. And he ran off from home and he went to Memphis, and I found him down there, playing in Chambers, Mississippi. So he made an appointment for me at Sun Studio.

Tell me a little bit about the kind of music you grow up with. What did you hear in Clarkesdale, Mississippi as you were growing up?

Sonny Boy Williams and uh…

Can I ask you to start again and say the music I listened to when I was a kid?

The music I listened to when I was a kid was Sonny Boy Williams and Pinetop, Pinetop Perkins. He was, he was the one who had the most influence on my playing. I saw him through a window playing piano, man, and I thought it was unbelievable somebody could move their fingers that fast. And this is how I, this is how I got interested in piano. And uh, finally he saw me looking through the window and he invited me in. Well, you know how kids are, you, a little bit in the door and a little bit further, so finally he, uh, uh, he started showing me how to do the left hand. Because I was fasc… he, he just fascinated me man. So anyway, he started showing me, so then, uh, a few weeks later, uh, uh, uh, I think in those days, uh, uh, Pinetop and Sonny Boy Williamson then was broadcasting from Helena, Arkansas. I don't remember the call letters of the radio station there. But anyway, so, uh, we met Robert Nighthawk which was also in competition in those days, you know, how, uh, uh, Robert Nighthawk was in competition with like Sonny Boy Williams, and uh, anyway, Robert Nighthawk, he had a broadcast on WROX radio station in Clarkesdale, so we used to help him carry his amplifiers and his guitar to the radio station, you know, just to be around music, you know. And uh, so this is how I got really interested in music at the beginning.

Tell me a little bit about the radio in those days, in the early '50s, when you had a program on WROX. What were the white stations playing and what were the black stations playing? Was it really separated?

Was it separated. Man ... Yes, …, but anyway I was working at the, uh, …Hotel in Clarkesdale as uh, uh, driving an elevator there in the building, which was the same station where Robert Nighthawk was broadcasting. He was broadcasting in the same building. An uh, anyway, uh, there was, uh, there was a white disk jockey named John Frisella. He was playing, uh, I don't, he wasn't playing, but anyway the popular groups in those days was Jimmy Ligg… Jim, Jimmy Liggins, Joe Liggins, uh, uh, all the old stuff, uh, uh, oh man. Well anyway, as far as I can go back, I go back to Lena Horne, man, when she did "Stormy Weather" and all this kind of stuff, man. Like I was, that was, she, she was like my idol. I was just in love with that lady man. And anyway, this guy, John Frisella, the disk jockey at the radio station, well, in those, he had the two turntables there and uh, he finally let me, every day when I'd get out of school, looking, looking at him. So finally he let me come inside, and he would let me hold a record, and tell me, okay, when this one stops, let this one go, and with this stops, let this go. So, well, you know to a kid man, this is like fun to me, you know, so, finally man, uh, uh, he went across the street, started going across to get coffee. And the manager of the station caught me in there. Wasn't nobody in there but me. But anyway, uh, uh, uh, I don't guess he got bawled out or nothing about it. But they started letting me put in the commercials, and they started teaching me stuff to do at the station. And then finally, they uh, uh, gave Robert Nighthawk 15 minutes more per day to do. And then when I get out of school every day, they let me come by and gave me a half an hour to just play records. But we were playing, I was just playing stuff by Roy Milton. See, this is a long time ago to try to remember, you know, we're talking about what, 40, 50 years ago? Anyway, I remember Roy Milton because he was on the MGM label, and they had a specialty label in those days, uh, uh, I can't remember the, the artists too much, that's kind of back there a little bit.

Maybe you could explain to our audience, a lot of whom are going to be young people. What kind of music were white stations playing versus what kind of music for black stations?

Okay, as an example, uh, uh, if you were watching, if you were just into the black radio stations, they were doing stuff like, uh, uh, uh, uh, more blues like -- [plays piano]. And they were singing like: [sings] I don't want no woman, if I have ain't no love in mind. I don't want to woman, if I have ain't no love in mind, and she keep you buying wretched wigs all the time. And if you listen to a white station, they talking about: [plays and sings] All jump up and when you come down, swing that pretty girl round and run. Really, you know steel guitar rag. But anyway, my favorite music believe it or not is country. You know, but that's the kind of stuff we were doing in those days. Then you had Amos Milburns -- that's right, the names are coming back. Amos Milburns, he was the one who did uh, uh, "Bad Whiskey." I don't know if you all heard of that song. But anyway, it was like the music was different because like in those days man, uh, uh, you find a piano player. It wasn't a guy that just played, uh, uh, this stuff. [plays piano] It wasn't like that. A guy, man, he like had a left hand. [plays piano] He could do both hands, but where today man, uh, the kids today, I don't guess they, they're not around a lot of guys who can play, like somewhere like down the road. Do you remember "Swanee River Boogie"? Well, anyway, I'll play it for you, maybe you'll remember it, I'll play just a little bit of it. They used to have this for Nashville, this was like, you could hear like all over the complete South in those days man, in the early '50s and late '40s, uh, uh, this guy, this was his theme song from Nashville, Tennessee. [plays piano] Just stuff like that. But anyway, like, like, I just loved the right hand with the left hand. Where today, man, you've got to have a rhythm section. You've got to have one guy, a bass player to play the bass, for the other guy to play the right hand. You can't get one day, you know, like in those days, everybody had a part to play. I think music gonna get back around to being music again.

Do you recall when you were young, listening to WLAC out of Nashville?

That's where that came from?

Like …Allen, and John R.

Yeah, John R, that was, uh, uh, uh, what was that, not, uh, I'm trying to think of what was that guy's slogan that he used on WLAC, Nashville, Tennessee.

Gene Nobles.

Gene Nobles, yeah, okay, right, right, right, Gene Nobles. Because he was the one using that "Swanee River Boogie" thing…

Where do you know all these songs from? [INAUDIBLE COMMENTS] Because this is back there, man. I remember the first song I started playing which, it was this song. [plays piano] "Sentimental Journey", yeah? And after that I learned how to play -- [plays piano] -- "Kow Kow Boogie". This is older stuff man.

Tell me what you were going to say about WLAC and about the white jockeys playing black music?

I don't, I don't, see, I don't really know that much about no white jockeys -- well, I know Dewey Phillips. Uh, uh, uh, playing "Red, Hot and Blue." But the stuff they were doing, they were copying off of what I was playing.

Well, let's talk about that. Are we ready?

Tell me about what Dewey Phillips was doing?

Well, I'll start before that. What actually happened, I left Mississippi, went to Memphis, and this was during the time when I recorded "Rocket 88" right back during that time. Uh, I went to West Memphis, and uh, uh, first of all I ran into Modern Record Company, Joe Bihari. And uh, uh, he saw me play piano. He was around like …, Newman, and all of them, the father and son and run, run this bunch. And anyway, he, uh, uh, I moved over to West Memphis, man, and started playing with Little Junior Parker, and Willie Nix, and uh, we all were, uh, Guitar Murphy, well, anyway, we all was playing in West Memphis. Well, this was during the time that Elvis Presley was driving a gravel truck. And we were playing on 11th Street there, and uh, they didn't allow whites into this club where we were. Uh, well, you know, uh, uh, it was a whole black street, it was like Amalone and 11th Street there. And anyway, uh, uh, uh, at that time, I didn't know who Elvis Presley was, I didn't even know the guy was a musician, it was just a guy that I liked. He liked music, so I liked him because he liked music. I'm assuming that just was it. But anyway, we had some form of rapport together. So I would slip him into the back of the club, man, into the back. The piano was sitting like this, and the back door was sitting, and anyway, I would sit him and have him behind the piano, because in those days I would stand up to play the piano, and I'd play the piano backwards and just clowning with the piano. But I never knew that this guy was even an entertainer. But meantime, I'm just assuming a year or so, whatever, a couple of months, whatever, I hear this "Blue Suede Shoes" but I never put this with this guy at all. I don't even connect the two. And uh, uh, uh, uh, what's this other guy named that played this boogie-woogie piano, uh, uh, uh, oh God, man -- I'm no good at names.

Jerry Lee Lewis?

Jerry Lee Lewis, yeah, yeah, yeah, wooooo. O-o-o-okay, okay, but, but any, anyway man, I always had a right hand and a left hand on the piano. But anyway, uh, uh, these guys started playing like the way that I was playing. But this was just something that, I thought this was the way piano was supposed to be played. I wasn't trying to do nothing different when I cut "Rocket 88," I just thought that was the way the instrument was supposed to be played. So, uh, any, any, anyway, the next thing I know, man, we was listening to "Red, Hot and Blue," what was his name, uh, Dewey Phillips, whatever. He was in the Peabody Hotel there in Memphis, man, and uh, anyway, they were playing all of this stuff, man, and uh, it sounded like man, they took, they took, it sounded like they just recorded part of things, that's the way it sounded to me. It was them playing it. And not seeing the guy playing all, doing -- [plays piano] -- doing all this stuff on the piano. But that's the way I would clown and stuff. So it's almost like they was taking what I was doing, man, and they were putting it on this radio station where, WDIA radio station in Memphis, you can't hear it ten miles out of town, then it would stop. But anyway, WDIA, well, you know, a black radio station, you couldn't hear it too far, but anyway, but WDIA pretty powerful, but, uh, uh, uh, that station where Dewey Phillips was on "Red, Hot and Blue," you could hear that thing, man, uh, uh, 2 or 300 miles away. Well, anyway, they had the clout. So anyway, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, we started, uh, uh, uh, that's when I met, uh, what's his name Joe Bihari with the Modern Record Company. So he wanted me to scout for talent with him. And this is when we cut Howlin' Wolf, and we cut, we recorded, uh, uh, well I have to play a little of the song man. Because I remember it was just like yesterday. It's like my fingers now, you look at my fingers like this, it fits exactly on the piano, exactly, and, and, uh, and we cut that song, and uh, we cut that song. Well, I forgot, anyway, I know -- "How Many More Years" by Howlin' Wolf. So we cut that song and "Moaning at Midnight," and uh, uh, uh, that's when Sam Phillips wanted me to start playing on a lot of other stuff. And many years later, in Las Vegas, we was, I was playing the main room at the International Hotel. And Elvis Presley was in the main room. And one night man, I won 490 some thousand dollars, and I was coming down through the back. I had all this big old rack of chips and stuff. And this white guy with his -- I knew Elvis was in the main room, but you know I never was interested in, in, in, in, in, in other acts. You know it was just, I always was interested in my -- you know, like if it's I get to know you, okay, but, but for me to go over there, Red Foxx was in the lounge also at that time. But anyway I was walking down through there pushing this rack with all of these chips that we have on there that I won that night. And this guy, say, hey you don't remember me? And I said no. So that's when he told me that he was the one that used to come to West Memphis and hide behind the piano, in this black club. You know, it was amazing, you know?

Could you tell me again, just fairly briefly, how you snuck Elvis into the black clubs?

Well, the club, in other words, it was an alley in the back, on 11th Street, there was an alley in the back, sort of a row of clubs there. And, uh, he would park his truck in the alley behind the club.

Could you use his name, because we'll be sure we know who you're talking about?

Okay. Well, uh, anyway, on 11th Street, in East St. Louis is where they gamble, and they have clubs there, black clubs there…

In West Memphis, Arkansas, right across from Memphis, Tennessee, where we playing over there on 11th Street, where they, where they gamble and they have little juke joint clubs, where Willie Nix played, was one, and Junior Parker and everybody was playing. Well, Elvis Presley, known today as Elvis Presley, he was driving a gravel truck. And he used to come around through the alley, to the back of this place. And uh, my piano, not this kind, it was the old upright piano was sitting right by the door, and I had pulled it out from the wall to where I could kind of face the audience, because if it was flat against the wall, I'd be looking straight across. So if I wanted to see the audience, so I had to pull it out. Well, the distance that I would pull it from the wall, is where he would be behind the piano. And he would watch me play. That's why he, when you see him standing up and he be doing his legs, when he be playing with the guitar, all this came from back in those days when we used to do that.

But in those days, did a white person have to be snuck in?

Well, I guess a white person could go where you want to, but if you're black you can't go where you want to go. Uh, uh, but anyway, uh, uh, uh, blacks in the South, you know, we, we, we've never been that prejudiced as far as towards whites, uh, in other words, like, uh, uh, I say it like this. A white man could go anywhere he want to go, in other words, you could go, a white man could go to a white hotel and he could, he could say, he want a room for his maid, and they'd put a room in there, a bed in there, you know, but, but not be, what I'm talking about, what… the chauffeur, but no, my, my, my, my point is like, is like, uh, uh, I never felt that, uh, blacks had prejudice towards white in the South. All this stuff came up later, later, in later years, when you came up with, uh, Stokely Charmichael and uh, Muhammad Ali, in other words all this stuff came up in the '60s, when you started the Freedom Riders and stuff like this, but back in those days, we wasn't thinking of race. We just accepted uh, uh, uh, that we were black and they were white. And so in other words, if I went to a white person's, I didn't think, I just went to the back door and knocked on his door. I wasn't thinking that I was at the back door, we didn't, we didn't care, it's like today, it's an insult to even suggest something like that. But then man it was something that was accepted, you know? And him being white? What were they going to do to him if they caught him in the club anyway? To the blacks there, he was just a white guy standing there, looking at us, as far as the blacks were concerned. The only time somebody would say something, would be a policeman and he wouldn't say anything himself.

Let's talk about who do you feel that you influenced. You were starting to talk about Jerry Lee do you think Little Richard too took some of your styles and Jerry Lee, both of them?

Well, you, you, you know, anyway, it's like, you know I know Little Richard really, really well. And Little Richard told me, what it is, maybe eight, ten months ago. Just the intro to "Rocket 88," he told me he stole that from me and it's on one of his records. I don't know, that, that's the same intro that's on, he was saying, he used to steal all of my stuff, but I never, you know, I would be stealing off of, uh, Amos Milburns, Joe Ligget, whatever I could hear, because I never read music, because of, I didn't read. So whatever I'd hear, I'd playing it. So it wasn't like stealing it, it was just like doing what sounded good or felt good to you.

Let me ask you this. When you went to Memphis as a young man, did you go to Beale Street? Can you describe what Beale Street was like in the late '40s, early '50s.

Well, uh, uh, you know, I was there two, three weeks ago. And uh, the only thing I really see different is right over there on Beale and … over there, is different, there used to be a pawnshop sitting over there on the corner. When you go over there, there used to be a pawnshop sitting back there. They had a big baritone, a big bass saxophone sitting in the window. But you know, basically, uh, when I went to B.B.'s club, basically, uh, you know I think it still feels kind of the same. I'm not sure, I don't, I can't really say, but I, in those days, because, you know, coming from Mississippi, excuse me, I lived, I was born in Clarkesdale, which is 61 miles from there, and coming to Memphis, man, that's like going into a city, where, you know, like today, today, man, I've been all over the world and to look at Memphis, I can't, I can't compare my feeling about it, uh, uh, uh, you, you understand I saw like B.B. King's club the other day, so it's just another club to me. But it's still Beale Street, uh, you know, uh, uh, because back in those days, we played the W.C. Handy Theater -- I think that's one of the first big jobs I played, I even forgot where it was in Memphis. But it was fun.