Nguyen Huu Nhan: Before 1954, I was still a kid and was going to school.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Then in 1954 I went with my parents to the South after the Geneva Agreement was signed.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After I got to the South, I went back to school again.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And after I obtained my High School Diploma, I was selected by the government to attend an engineering course at the Nong Son Coal Mine.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Then I got into an accident that year and did not go.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: In 1964 the American Armed Forces arrived.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Before this, I worked for the RMK Construction Company.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After that, I worked for the American First Marine Division in Da Nang.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I worked for the Americans from 1964 to 1969 when the American armed forces withdrew from Vietnam.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After 1969, I opened up a hairdressing shop and a restaurant.
Interviewer: What were you doing? What was your life like? Give us details which you consider important.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: In 1968 and 1969 I was still working for the American First Marine Division.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: During this period I was an interpreter and was with the Fifth Communication Battalion.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the American armed forces left in 1969, I began to get into business by opening up a restaurant and a hairdressing parlor.
Interviewer: The most important thing is your impression when you were working for the Americans.
Interviewer: During the week, what were your activities? What did you feel when you followed the Americans into the villages and hamlets? And what were the reactions of the majority of the Vietnamese people?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: During the period I was working with the American First Marine Division my job was as an interpreter.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This is to say I was with the Civilian Affairs Office.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: My job was to go into the hamlets and villages and to find out what the villagers needed so that the American First Marine Division could supply them with.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And everybody really adored the American Armed Forces.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for myself, during that period I earned a lot of money with which I could take care of my family.
Interviewer: Did you ever get involved in combat? When the Americans and the Viet Cong were fighting each other did you ever detect a friend or an acquaintance whom you finally realized was a Viet Cong? And what was your feeling then?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Because I was a civilian interpreter, I never participated in military operations or in patrols.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Only Sergeant Luan went on military operations.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The place where I was working was very secure.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: There was no Viet Cong there.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Sometimes I did go into the villages on military patrols with a group of American Marines.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But I never saw the Viet Cong myself.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because it was close to the city and so it was very secure and tranquil.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I...My friends as well as the villagers in Yen Bac, which was the place where I was working, none of them was Viet Cong.
Interviewer: In general, the living conditions from 1969 to 1972 were like what? Was it easy or difficult to make a living? What were your personal feelings at the time about the living conditions of the majority of the population? And what were your living conditions like?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the departure of the Americans in 1969, the Vietnamese people became very sad.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: First of all, this was because they could no longer find work.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Second, it was difficult to make money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for myself, I went into business and opened up a restaurant and a hairdressing parlor.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And so I made enough to feed my family.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for the Vietnamese people in general, everyone from the upper crust as well as from the bottom became very sad because the American armed forces had withdrawn.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And at that time I felt that after the departure of the American armed forces, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because they did not have enough strength to deal with the Viet Cong.
Interviewer: And the war?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The war became larger and larger.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As you know, in the summer of 1972 the Viet Cong attacked...
Interviewer: What were the things that made you most happy and most enthusiastic about?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When the American armed forces withdrew from Vietnam I was somewhat sad.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But because of familial as well as social situations, I had to enter business in order to feed my family and myself.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But there was nothing there to make me enthusiastic about.
Interviewer: Was this the period when you were most successful?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: No.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The most successful period for me was in 1966 and 1967.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: At this time I already had the hairdressing parlor.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was my most successful period.
Interviewer: It was during this period that the most number of refugees went into the urban areas, isn't that so?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: That's right.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: During the period from 1969 to 1972 when the American troops were withdrawing from Vietnam, all the villages distant from the towns and the provincial headquarters were invaded by the Viet Cong one after another.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And so the villagers left for the towns and cities in increasingly large numbers.
Interviewer: What did you think of all this?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I thought that the Vietnamese armed forces were not strong enough to resist the Viet Cong.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because the Viet Cong were conducting a guerrilla war.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, first of all the village inhabitants had to leave the villages under the tremendous pressures of the Viet Cong and went into the cities.
Interviewer: If the American troops did not withdraw from Vietnam, then would this have happened?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: If the American troops remained in Vietnam that would never have happened.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As you yourself must have observed, when the American troops were still in Vietnam all the villagers were still plowing their fields and were happy.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But as soon as the American troops withdrew from Vietnam, I felt that the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker every day.
Interviewer: What about the Year of the Monkey - 1968 Tet Offensive?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: About the 1968 Tet Offensive, this had been planned by the Viet Cong beforehand.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I did not know of this myself.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But the Viet Cong had this all planned out ahead of time and had planned to occupy the South that year.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But they were defeated.
Interviewer: And the Americans were present at the time?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The Americans were present at that time.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Because the Americans were around at the time, the Vietnamese armed forces were still very strong at the time although they did not engage in the fighting.
Interviewer: Please talk about the social impacts of the Americans.
Interviewer: Many people have said that the Americans brought with them prostitution, black-marketeering, opium and corruption.
Interviewer: And that is your opinion of the impacts of the Americans on Vietnamese society?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When the Americans arrived in Vietnam, I felt that there was not much prostitution.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because there was a number of bargirls who made a lot of money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for black-marketeering, this only involved buying goods from the American supermarkets for resale.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for corruption, this only occurred after the American troops had left and became increasingly worse.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because if a soldier wanted to remain in the city he had to pay an officer so much money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Otherwise, he had to go to the front.
Interviewer: But didn't people say that only with the arrival of the Americans that prostitution and corruption got out of hand?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: In my opinion, this was not the case.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because after the Americans left, there were still prostitution and corruption around.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for black-marketeering, the only thing I witnessed was the purchase of American goods from the American supermarkets for resale.
Interviewer: But weren’t these phenomena left behind by the Americans?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: No, not so at all.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because after the American troops left, it got more and more difficult to make a living.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: There were more prostitutes after than during the American presence.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: A number of girls were working in the bars while the American troops were still in Vietnam.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the Americans left, some of them went back to their normal lives by going back to their families.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But a number of them who did not have any money had to continue to...they could not work as bargirls anymore and had to become prostitutes.
Interviewer: Wasn't it true that the Vietnamese were opposed the Americans creating bad social influences in Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: In my opinion that was only Viet Cong propaganda.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As far as I was concerned, I realized that the American troops came and helped the Vietnamese people in many ways.
Interviewer: Some people have said that the Americans engaged too much in the war, that the Americans did too much and so when they withdrew the Vietnamese could not handle themselves.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: That is not the case.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I believe that these are Communist inspired words only.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When the American forces were still in Vietnam the Vietnamese troops were also fighting in battles.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: It was not only the Americans who were helping out.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The Vietnamese forces were very strong at the time.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But after the American troops withdrew I felt that the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker because of lack of manpower, ammunition and modern weapons which the Americans had at their disposal and which the Vietnamese armed forces did not have now.
Interviewer: For example?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, the Vietnamese forces only used M-16s while the American troops were using M-18s.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And I felt that each American infantry division had a lot of artillery and air support.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But many Vietnamese battalions later on got very random artillery support because of lack of shells.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: All of the Vietnamese people loved them and respected them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But if there were some aspects which some Vietnamese did not like, this was all because of evil Viet Cong's proddings.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I only saw that the American troops helped the Vietnamese people in all respects.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When the American troops left Vietnam, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker because of lack of manpower to withstand the Viet Cong.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for black-marketeering, I did not see anything bad at all.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, when some people bought goods from the American supermarkets for resale to make a little profit then everybody said that this was black-marketeering.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But to me this was not black-marketeering.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was only transaction.
Interviewer: Was it because of the American presence in terms of artillery and airplanes that the rural population left for the cities?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: No, that was not the case.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because when the American troops were still in Vietnam the Vietnamese population really loved them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the American troops left, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As a result, villages distant to the urban areas did not have enough security and did not have enough Vietnamese forces to contend with the Communists.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, the village inhabitants crowded into the urban areas day by day.
Interviewer: Please tell us your impressions of the ARVN: its fighting morale, its attitude toward the rural population, especially after the winter of 1972 during the North Vietnamese offensive.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the explosive summer of 1972 the Vietnamese armed forces for still fighting valiantly.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But because of shortage of manpower, materiels and ammunition, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker everyday.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, the Viet Cong were able to occupy more and more Vietnamese territory.
Interviewer: Many people have complained that too many Americans came to Vietnam and that they ran everything, not giving the Vietnamese the chance to conduct their own lives.
Interviewer: Also, please talk a little bit more about the Vietnamese policies on the 1971 elections and what you thought about them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: A number of people did voice that complaint.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But, they were all prodded by the Viet Cong to say these things.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for the election between Mr. Thieu and Mr. Ky, at that time the American government supported the Thieu administration more and so Mr. Thieu ran by himself.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And so, even if Mr. Thieu had won by one vote, he would have become the president.
Interviewer: Was this an example of too much American intervention in Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: No, that's not so.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because the American government at that time supported Mr. Thieu and wanted to get rid of Mr. Ky, therefore Mr. Thieu became president.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for the Vietnamese people, most of them liked Mr. Ky more than they liked Mr. Thieu at that time.
Interviewer: Did the Americans decide who was going to be the president of the Republic of Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: No, the Americans did not decide.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But the Americans supported Mr. Thieu.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And because Mr. Thieu had the American support, his underlings such as General Quang, Hoang Duc Nha...Therefore, Mr. Thieu had strong American support although he ran a one man election in which he had no opponent.
Interviewer: Do you think the Americans had the right to do this?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I don't have any opinion on this...
Interviewer: If the Americans supported Mr. Ky then he would have been president.
Interviewer: Isn't this what you are saying?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: That's correct.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: If the Americans supported both of them equally, then I believe that Mr. Ky would have become president during that period.
Interviewer: Wasn't your economic situation a result of the Americans spending large amounts of money in Vietnam? Or were there other factors?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When the American forces were still in Vietnam, it was easy for the Vietnamese people to earn money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And it was during this period that my business greatly developed.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But after the American troops withdrew, it was difficult for my Vietnamese compatriots to make money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, my business went down every day.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And so I had to go back to work for an American organization, the LSI contracting company.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: As for your question...
Interviewer: Please give us a few examples of your business dealings during the 1967-69 period.
Interviewer: And compare this with the subsequent period.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: During the period from 1967 to 1969 when the American forces were still in Vietnam, it was very easy for everybody to make money.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, a certain Mr. A who worked for the Americans could earn many times more than the salary paid by the Vietnamese government to its employee.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, since this Mr. A could make a lot of money, he would spend it in many ways.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, because he had money he took his wife and children to restaurants.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Or because his wife had the money, she went to the hairdresser to have her hair curled.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But after the American troops withdrew from Vietnam, it became very difficult for the Vietnamese to make money.
Interviewer: For example, did your hairdressing parlor make a lot of money before 1969?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: From 1967 on, when the American forces were still in the country, my hairdressing business developed greatly.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But after the American troops...
Interviewer: But how much did your business go down? By half or...
Nguyen Huu Nhan: By more than one half.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After the American troops left, I could make only about one third of what I used to make when the American forces were still around.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The same was true with my restaurant.
Interviewer: Could you tell us what you yourself were doing two or three days before the Viet Cong's victory?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: When Mr. Thieu...It was on April 23rd that Mr. Thieu resigned...the majority of the Vietnamese people from top to bottom felt that Vietnam was already lost to the Communists.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: There was nobody around to resist them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The high generals had all fled.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And the soldiers, when they saw their officers fled they also threw down their guns and ran.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, the Viet Cong forces took over the cities easily.
Interviewer: What about yourself?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: At that time I wanted to leave Vietnam.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But there were too many people in my family.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: If I left by myself at the time, I would have made it.
Interviewer: After the Viet Cong had won – you can say this either about Da Nang or Saigon – what was life like during the first few days?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: During the first few days, because the South Vietnamese population did not know what a Communist regime was like they poured out into the street happily to welcome the Viet Cong forces into the cities.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But...
Interviewer: Was this in Saigon or...
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was in Saigon.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But I personally felt quite sad at that time.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because I had read books and had understood what Communism would be like.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Therefore, I felt very sad at the time.
Interviewer: When did you get arrested and sent to re-education?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: The Viet Cong arrested me on December 22nd on the false accusation that I had been a comprador and had worked for the CIA.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: They detained me for a period close to three years and released me after that.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: After this period I tried to flee abroad.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But I was not successful.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This was because my family had become quite poor.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But luckily I finally left Vietnam all by myself.
Interviewer: Before this time, how many times had you tried to leave?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: I tried ten times in all.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But because I had been tricked and because I had not found the right connection.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Each time we tried, my family had to spend a lot of money.
Interviewer: How much each time?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, if a personal wanted to leave in a semi-official way or wanted to go across the border then he had to pay from five to seven pieces of gold.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And if you wanted to leave semi-officially then you had to pay from eight to twelve pieces, one ounce each.
Interviewer: Whom do you pay?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: If you wanted to leave semi officially, then you pay the Viet Cong administration.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: If you wanted to leave unofficially, then you pay the organizers.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Clapstick
Interviewer: From 1968, '69 to 1972, did you think the Republic of Vietnam was an independent country or whether it would become an independent country in the future? Or did you think there was a certain power which conducted the whole thing and therefore Vietnam could not become a nation?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: To answer that question, I must say that an independent country is a country where there is no war.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And whether the American troops were still around or had already left, if there was a war still then it could not be independence.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Because...
Interviewer: Because of what?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, whether the American troops were still in Vietnam or whether they had left, if there was still the sound of gunfire then the country could not be considered independent.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Because how can you have independence when you still fight with the Viet Cong? Independence means peace.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Every Vietnamese now only want...For example, those who have succeeded in coming here want to reunite with their families.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: This is my personal opinion.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And those Vietnamese who are still left behind want to leave the country.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: These are the things the Vietnamese want.
Interviewer: Which is the most effective way to have family reunion?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: In my opinion, family reunion is very difficult.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: For example, even if you filed the applications here and the Viet Cong government does want to let you go then there is nothing you can do.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: And for example if you put in the applications here but the Viet Cong administration demands bribes...for example, if each person who wants to leave have to pay...Therefore, I feel that it is very difficult.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: My dream is to have family reunion, that's all.
Interviewer: Your family is from the North.
Interviewer: Did it ever cross your mind that the Viet Cong who also came from the North could have been your brothers and sisters, your relatives?
Nguyen Huu Nhan: All the members of my family were from the North.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: But when the Viet Cong forces entered the city, we only felt hatred toward them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan: Even though they were northerners, they were Viet Cong followers.
Interviewer: You have been very patient...