Life among the American forces

SR 2858
Nguyen Huu Nhan
Beep tone
Roll 2858 of Vietnam Project, July 14th, 1981. Project No. T 876.
Clapstick
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
Before 1954, I was still a kid and was going to school. Then in 1954 I went with my parents to the South after the Geneva Agreement was signed. After I got to the South, I went back to school again.
And after I obtained my High School Diploma, I was selected by the government to attend an engineering course at the Nong Son Coal Mine. Then I got into an accident that year and did not go. In 1964 the American Armed Forces arrived. Before this, I worked for the RMK Construction Company.
After that, I worked for the American First Marine Division in Da Nang. I worked for the Americans from 1964 to 1969 when the American armed forces withdrew from Vietnam. After 1969, I opened up a hairdressing shop and a restaurant.
Interviewer:
What were you doing? What was your life like? Give us details which you consider important.
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
In 1968 and 1969 I was still working for the American First Marine Division. During this period I was an interpreter and was with the Fifth Communication Battalion. After the American armed forces left in 1969, I began to get into business by opening up a restaurant and a hairdressing parlor.
Interviewer:
The most important thing is your impression when you were working for the Americans. During the week, what were your activities? What did you feel when you followed the Americans into the villages and hamlets? And what were the reactions of the majority of the Vietnamese people?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
During the period I was working with the American First Marine Division my job was as an interpreter. This is to say I was with the Civilian Affairs Office.
My job was to go into the hamlets and villages and to find out what the villagers needed so that the American First Marine Division could supply them with. And everybody really adored the American Armed Forces. As for myself, during that period I earned a lot of money with which I could take care of my family.
Clapstick
Interviewer:
Did you ever get involved in combat? When the Americans and the Viet Cong were fighting each other did you ever detect a friend or an acquaintance whom you finally realized was a Viet Cong? And what was your feeling then?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
Because I was a civilian interpreter, I never participated in military operations or in patrols. Only Sergeant Luan went on military operations.
The place where I was working was very secure. There was no Viet Cong there. Sometimes I did go into the villages on military patrols with a group of American Marines. But I never saw the Viet Cong myself. This was because it was close to the city and so it was very secure and tranquil.
I...My friends as well as the villagers in Yen Bac, which was the place where I was working, none of them was Viet Cong.

After the withdrawal by the U.S.

Clapstick
Take 1
Interviewer:
In general, the living conditions from 1969 to 1972 were like what? Was it easy or difficult to make a living? What were your personal feelings at the time about the living conditions of the majority of the population? And what were your living conditions like?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
After the departure of the Americans in 1969, the Vietnamese people became very sad. First of all, this was because they could no longer find work. Second, it was difficult to make money.
As for myself, I went into business and opened up a restaurant and a hairdressing parlor. And so I made enough to feed my family.
As for the Vietnamese people in general, everyone from the upper crust as well as from the bottom became very sad because the American armed forces had withdrawn. And at that time I felt that after the departure of the American armed forces, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker. This was because they did not have enough strength to deal with the Viet Cong.
Interviewer:
And the war?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
The war became larger and larger. As you know, in the summer of 1972 the Viet Cong attacked...
Interviewer:
What were the things that made you most happy and most enthusiastic about?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
When the American armed forces withdrew from Vietnam I was somewhat sad. But because of familial as well as social situations, I had to enter business in order to feed my family and myself. But there was nothing there to make me enthusiastic about.
Interviewer:
Was this the period when you were most successful?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
No. The most successful period for me was in 1966 and 1967. At this time I already had the hairdressing parlor. This was my most successful period.
Interviewer:
It was during this period that the most number of refugees went into the urban areas, isn't that so?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
That's right. During the period from 1969 to 1972 when the American troops were withdrawing from Vietnam, all the villages distant from the towns and the provincial headquarters were invaded by the Viet Cong one after another. And so the villagers left for the towns and cities in increasingly large numbers.
Interviewer:
What did you think of all this?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
I thought that the Vietnamese armed forces were not strong enough to resist the Viet Cong. This was because the Viet Cong were conducting a guerrilla war. Therefore, first of all the village inhabitants had to leave the villages under the tremendous pressures of the Viet Cong and went into the cities.
Interviewer:
If the American troops did not withdraw from Vietnam, then would this have happened?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
If the American troops remained in Vietnam that would never have happened. As you yourself must have observed, when the American troops were still in Vietnam all the villagers were still plowing their fields and were happy. But as soon as the American troops withdrew from Vietnam, I felt that the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker every day.
Interviewer:
What about the Year of the Monkey - 1968 Tet Offensive?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
About the 1968 Tet Offensive, this had been planned by the Viet Cong beforehand. I did not know of this myself. But the Viet Cong had this all planned out ahead of time and had planned to occupy the South that year. But they were defeated.
Interviewer:
And the Americans were present at the time?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
The Americans were present at that time. Because the Americans were around at the time, the Vietnamese armed forces were still very strong at the time although they did not engage in the fighting.

Impact of the American forces on the Vietnamese

6
Take 1
Clapstick
Interviewer:
Please talk about the social impacts of the Americans. Many people have said that the Americans brought with them prostitution, black-marketeering, opium and corruption. And that is your opinion of the impacts of the Americans on Vietnamese society?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
When the Americans arrived in Vietnam, I felt that there was not much prostitution. This was because there was a number of bargirls who made a lot of money. As for black-marketeering, this only involved buying goods from the American supermarkets for resale.
As for corruption, this only occurred after the American troops had left and became increasingly worse. This was because if a soldier wanted to remain in the city he had to pay an officer so much money. Otherwise, he had to go to the front.
Interviewer:
But didn't people say that only with the arrival of the Americans that prostitution and corruption got out of hand?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
In my opinion, this was not the case. This was because after the Americans left, there were still prostitution and corruption around. As for black-marketeering, the only thing I witnessed was the purchase of American goods from the American supermarkets for resale.
Interviewer:
But weren’t these phenomena left behind by the Americans?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
No, not so at all. This was because after the American troops left, it got more and more difficult to make a living. There were more prostitutes after than during the American presence. A number of girls were working in the bars while the American troops were still in Vietnam.
After the Americans left, some of them went back to their normal lives by going back to their families. But a number of them who did not have any money had to continue to...they could not work as bargirls anymore and had to become prostitutes.
Interviewer:
Wasn't it true that the Vietnamese were opposed the Americans creating bad social influences in Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
In my opinion that was only Viet Cong propaganda. As far as I was concerned, I realized that the American troops came and helped the Vietnamese people in many ways.
Interviewer:
Some people have said that the Americans engaged too much in the war, that the Americans did too much and so when they withdrew the Vietnamese could not handle themselves.
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
That is not the case. I believe that these are Communist inspired words only. When the American forces were still in Vietnam the Vietnamese troops were also fighting in battles. It was not only the Americans who were helping out. The Vietnamese forces were very strong at the time.
But after the American troops withdrew I felt that the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker because of lack of manpower, ammunition and modern weapons which the Americans had at their disposal and which the Vietnamese armed forces did not have now.
Interviewer:
For example?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
For example, the Vietnamese forces only used M-16s while the American troops were using M-18s. And I felt that each American infantry division had a lot of artillery and air support. But many Vietnamese battalions later on got very random artillery support because of lack of shells.
All of the Vietnamese people loved them and respected them. But if there were some aspects which some Vietnamese did not like, this was all because of evil Viet Cong's proddings. I only saw that the American troops helped the Vietnamese people in all respects. When the American troops left Vietnam, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker because of lack of manpower to withstand the Viet Cong.
As for black-marketeering, I did not see anything bad at all. For example, when some people bought goods from the American supermarkets for resale to make a little profit then everybody said that this was black-marketeering. But to me this was not black-marketeering. This was only transaction.
Interviewer:
Was it because of the American presence in terms of artillery and airplanes that the rural population left for the cities?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
No, that was not the case. This was because when the American troops were still in Vietnam the Vietnamese population really loved them. After the American troops left, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker. As a result, villages distant to the urban areas did not have enough security and did not have enough Vietnamese forces to contend with the Communists. Therefore, the village inhabitants crowded into the urban areas day by day.
Interviewer:
Please tell us your impressions of the ARVN: its fighting morale, its attitude toward the rural population, especially after the winter of 1972 during the North Vietnamese offensive.
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
After the explosive summer of 1972 the Vietnamese armed forces for still fighting valiantly. But because of shortage of manpower, materiels and ammunition, the Vietnamese armed forces became weaker and weaker everyday. Therefore, the Viet Cong were able to occupy more and more Vietnamese territory.

Role of the U.S. in the 1971 elections in South Vietnam

7
Take 1, on the end.
Clapstick
Interviewer:
Many people have complained that too many Americans came to Vietnam and that they ran everything, not giving the Vietnamese the chance to conduct their own lives. Also, please talk a little bit more about the Vietnamese policies on the 1971 elections and what you thought about them.
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
A number of people did voice that complaint. But, they were all prodded by the Viet Cong to say these things. As for the election between Mr. Thieu and Mr. Ky, at that time the American government supported the Thieu administration more and so Mr. Thieu ran by himself. And so, even if Mr. Thieu had won by one vote, he would have become the president.
Interviewer:
Was this an example of too much American intervention in Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
No, that's not so. This was because the American government at that time supported Mr. Thieu and wanted to get rid of Mr. Ky, therefore Mr. Thieu became president. As for the Vietnamese people, most of them liked Mr. Ky more than they liked Mr. Thieu at that time.
Interviewer:
Did the Americans decide who was going to be the president of the Republic of Vietnam?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
No, the Americans did not decide. But the Americans supported Mr. Thieu. And because Mr. Thieu had the American support, his underlings such as General Quang, Hoang Duc Nha...Therefore, Mr. Thieu had strong American support although he ran a one man election in which he had no opponent.
Interviewer:
Do you think the Americans had the right to do this?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
I don't have any opinion on this...
Interviewer:
If the Americans supported Mr. Ky then he would have been president. Isn't this what you are saying?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
That's correct. If the Americans supported both of them equally, then I believe that Mr. Ky would have become president during that period.

Standard of living under the Americans

SR 2859
Beep tone
Vietnam Project, 2859, T 876, July 14, 1981.
Take 1
Clapstick
Interviewer:
Wasn't your economic situation a result of the Americans spending large amounts of money in Vietnam? Or were there other factors?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
When the American forces were still in Vietnam, it was easy for the Vietnamese people to earn money. And it was during this period that my business greatly developed. But after the American troops withdrew, it was difficult for my Vietnamese compatriots to make money. Therefore, my business went down every day. And so I had to go back to work for an American organization, the LSI contracting company. As for your question...
Interviewer:
Please give us a few examples of your business dealings during the 1967-69 period. And compare this with the subsequent period.
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
During the period from 1967 to 1969 when the American forces were still in Vietnam, it was very easy for everybody to make money. For example, a certain Mr. A who worked for the Americans could earn many times more than the salary paid by the Vietnamese government to its employee. Therefore, since this Mr. A could make a lot of money, he would spend it in many ways.
For example, because he had money he took his wife and children to restaurants. Or because his wife had the money, she went to the hairdresser to have her hair curled. But after the American troops withdrew from Vietnam, it became very difficult for the Vietnamese to make money.
Interviewer:
For example, did your hairdressing parlor make a lot of money before 1969?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
From 1967 on, when the American forces were still in the country, my hairdressing business developed greatly. But after the American troops...
Interviewer:
But how much did your business go down? By half or...
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
By more than one half. After the American troops left, I could make only about one third of what I used to make when the American forces were still around. The same was true with my restaurant.
Interviewer:
Could you tell us what you yourself were doing two or three days before the Viet Cong's victory?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
When Mr. Thieu...It was on April 23rd that Mr. Thieu resigned...the majority of the Vietnamese people from top to bottom felt that Vietnam was already lost to the Communists. There was nobody around to resist them. The high generals had all fled. And the soldiers, when they saw their officers fled they also threw down their guns and ran. Therefore, the Viet Cong forces took over the cities easily.
Interviewer:
What about yourself?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
At that time I wanted to leave Vietnam. But there were too many people in my family. If I left by myself at the time, I would have made it.

Flight from Vietnam and the struggle to reunite with family

Interviewer:
After the Viet Cong had won – you can say this either about Da Nang or Saigon – what was life like during the first few days?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
During the first few days, because the South Vietnamese population did not know what a Communist regime was like they poured out into the street happily to welcome the Viet Cong forces into the cities. But...
Interviewer:
Was this in Saigon or...
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
This was in Saigon. But I personally felt quite sad at that time. This was because I had read books and had understood what Communism would be like. Therefore, I felt very sad at the time.
Interviewer:
When did you get arrested and sent to re-education?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
The Viet Cong arrested me on December 22nd on the false accusation that I had been a comprador and had worked for the CIA. They detained me for a period close to three years and released me after that. After this period I tried to flee abroad. But I was not successful. This was because my family had become quite poor. But luckily I finally left Vietnam all by myself.
Interviewer:
Before this time, how many times had you tried to leave?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
I tried ten times in all. But because I had been tricked and because I had not found the right connection. Each time we tried, my family had to spend a lot of money.
Interviewer:
How much each time?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
For example, if a personal wanted to leave in a semi-official way or wanted to go across the border then he had to pay from five to seven pieces of gold. And if you wanted to leave semi-officially then you had to pay from eight to twelve pieces, one ounce each.
Interviewer:
Whom do you pay?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
If you wanted to leave semi officially, then you pay the Viet Cong administration. If you wanted to leave unofficially, then you pay the organizers.
Clapstick
Interviewer:
From 1968, '69 to 1972, did you think the Republic of Vietnam was an independent country or whether it would become an independent country in the future? Or did you think there was a certain power which conducted the whole thing and therefore Vietnam could not become a nation?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
To answer that question, I must say that an independent country is a country where there is no war. And whether the American troops were still around or had already left, if there was a war still then it could not be independence. Because...
Interviewer:
Because of what?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
For example, whether the American troops were still in Vietnam or whether they had left, if there was still the sound of gunfire then the country could not be considered independent. Because how can you have independence when you still fight with the Viet Cong? Independence means peace.
Every Vietnamese now only want...For example, those who have succeeded in coming here want to reunite with their families. This is my personal opinion. And those Vietnamese who are still left behind want to leave the country. These are the things the Vietnamese want.
Interviewer:
Which is the most effective way to have family reunion?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
In my opinion, family reunion is very difficult. For example, even if you filed the applications here and the Viet Cong government does want to let you go then there is nothing you can do. And for example if you put in the applications here but the Viet Cong administration demands bribes...for example, if each person who wants to leave have to pay...Therefore, I feel that it is very difficult. My dream is to have family reunion, that's all.
Interviewer:
Your family is from the North. Did it ever cross your mind that the Viet Cong who also came from the North could have been your brothers and sisters, your relatives?
Nguyen Huu Nhan:
All the members of my family were from the North. But when the Viet Cong forces entered the city, we only felt hatred toward them. Even though they were northerners, they were Viet Cong followers.
11
Take 1
Clapstick
Interviewer:
You have been very patient...