So tell me about these white guitar players that you admire.

I think Clapton, man, is one of the baddest guitar players I know, as far as heart and, I'm talking from within, when he plays, when he plays a note, the charisma that he puts into it. You, you, you know, I know a lot of guys can play a guitar, I mean can just play it and make a monkey out of a guitar, you understand that? But this don't mean a thing, as far as I'm concerned. But a guy that can take one note, or two notes or whatever he played man, and man, you can feel, you can feel where he was born, you can feel his mother's labor pains, when a guy can do stuff like that, man, I'm talking, he can play with okay, example. I think Keith Richards, I think Keith, uh, uh, he taught me about the five string guitar, uh, G tuning, right? Keith plays so much guitar man he don't even know what he plays. I'm talking, I mean, if you want Keith to play this pattern here and this pattern here, you better record it, and say play this right here and that right there, because he, he's so creative man, he never repeats, you understand? But, but, two different, to different type dudes, man. Uh, uh, where, where, uh, like, Albert Collins, the guy he just died, Albert. That guy, man his string is this high. They're an inch off the neck of his guitar. And I don't, I can't even push a string down on his guitar. But that guy, man, I'm talking, I'm talking, he got heart in it. When I'm putting something in it, I'm talking about heart in it. And so, uh, uh, this Clapton, man, he's a bad. I was so proud when I saw him and got all these awards man, because he deserved it man.

Let me ask you this. This program is about the beginning of rock 'n' roll, and it's hard to define what that really means. But what do you think, what do you think is the beginning of what we call rock 'n' roll music?

Well, to me, if you get down, you have to back to the beginning of music, because in other words man, I don't think that when somebody put a name on something that make it the beginning of it. And I that's what I think has happened with, uh, uh, the beginning of rock 'n' roll or the beginning of this. Man, uh, uh, uh, well, right now I'm not in the frame of mind, uh, because it just hit me and I had to think of who back in those days, uh, uh, Fats Waller, uh, all these people way back man, when I was, before I was born, but, uh, uh, these people were, uh, uh, and I'm sure there's a lot of way back in the, uh, well, I don't know back in the Cab Calloway days, there's guys back there, man those guys could play. I'm talking, I'm talking, and if you just take the color off of it, man, these guys rock 'n' rolled way back there then. So how could I be the first rock 'n' roller. I'm just saying what I feel man, I don't really know. You know. So in other words, if you're going to say well, when they decided to name it rock 'n' roll, well, if you decided to name it in 1950, well, then maybe you could say me. And if you want to go back before that, then it's somebody else. And so in other words, it's like, a, a, uh, and you know, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on but it's like Little Richard said, everybody's stealing my music. Well, where'd he get it from, so you know, uh, uh, it's just one of those things man.