One more time that Leiber and Stoller influenced your vocal style. Show us and tell us how they did that.

Well, imagine if there's a way of, of showing you how my vocal style was influence by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller was coming out gospel you do things like - Nearer my God to Thee, or Nearer to Thee, Nearer to Thee. Nearer my God to Thee, oh Nearer my God to Thee. And then they would take me and say, do, do this song - There is a rose in Spanish Harlem and red rose up in Spanish Harlem. It is the special one, it's never seen the sun, it only comes out when the moon is on the run, and all the stars are gleaming. I say, you got to be joking. I would look at them like they was absolutely mad but yet and still once I would do it with the band, with the strings, it all made sense. And whatever I was feeling when I'd sing - Nearer My God To Thee - or anything else in church I can actually find the same feeling when I'm doing "There's A Rose In Spanish Harlem." And they taught me that it's not what you're singing, it's how you're feeling when you're singing it. And, and I, I've always, I don't care what studio I'm in, I don't care what producers is producing it and I don't care what song it is because they taught me those things I feel so protected wherever I go as far as music.

Thank you. Why did you quit the Drifters when the Drifters are doing so well?

You know, to tell you the truth, I didn't quit the Drifters. Everybody assumed that, everybody always ask me, did you quit the Drifters? And I always say, no, I didn't really quit the Drifters. What happened with my situation with the Drifters, we were all young kids out of, out of Harlem and when we signed our first contract because we didn't have any lawyers around, we signed the contract that we made, I think it was $125 dollars a week regardless of how many hits we had. We never collected any money on those hits. So all we got when we first started was $125 dollars a week out of the $125 dollars a week we had to keep our uniforms clean, we had to pay for our own meals and … send money home. And we got on a tour and we had a hit record and yet we still, we still getting $125 dollars a week and we had all these other expenses to, to kind of keep things going. And at, and at the time I had just gotten married and I tried to send home some money to my wife and it just didn't work. So we were all very unhappy. I think the thing that hurt us most is that we did have a number one record out and we didn't know that we shouldn't have signed a contract because we were just so excited to become the new Drifters and things like that. So things happened. But we were complaining just to get a raise in salary. So we got back to New York off a tour one day, we called up the manager and we told him how unhappy we were, we'd like to meet with him. H said, okay, well, he set a time. We all went down, came down to New York and we had, had this great meeting. They selected me to be the spokesman. I, I would imagine they did that thinking that he wouldn't fire the lead singer. They were wrong. He fired the lead singer. He told me, he said, well, you stand over there and you speak for yourself. So I more or less stepped aside and I said, okay, and I repeated the same thing I said, well, myself and I, I started to say the group again, I said, well I'm unhappy about the salary that I'm getting, I'd like to have a raise. And he said, I can't afford one. This is with a number one record. And he says, so, if you want to you can stay off, whatever. And he threw his hands up like that. So, I looked at the other guys that were sitting there and I took the whatever and I said, okay. And I walked out the door. I stood on the side because it's a glass door there and I stood on the side so they wouldn't see a shadow of me or anything and nobody followed. I was out there for about 15 or 20 minutes waiting. No one came out. So at that time I said, well, you can go back in and apologize and take this 125 dollars or you can call it a day for show business. So I headed toward the elevator. The only person that followed me was the guy, Lubber Patterson who took us from the Five Crowns to make us the new Drifters. Because of him believing in me and standing behind me and thinking that I was worth getting up on the morning for, I happened to stay in the business. Other than that I wouldn't have stayed too long. But everybody, everybody because most singers do quit groups to be, to launch a solo career but that didn't happen in my case. I had once, once I got out of the group I was finished, I was, I wasn't going to do any more music stuff I'd had enough of the pain and all the disappointment that goes along in the music in just a short time with them. All the trickery, I had, I, all of it just got right into my life in a very short time of being with them. And I didn't really like it. I enjoyed singing, I loved song writing, I loved recording. All those things that involves with creating music was great, I loved those things that and to this day I love that. Ah, but all the other bits was very ugly and, and slick and I, I, I never adjusted to slick stuff in this business. And, aha, I was glad to leave that part of it. And when I got down to the elevator myself with Lubber Patterson, he said, well what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to go back and work with my dad in my restaurant and just, you know. I was already a star in the ghetto anyway so everybody thought I was fixed up because I had a few hits and stuff. So I'd always made a name for myself, more of a name than I thought I'd ever make in my life. I'd done something, you know. And… I think the thing that convinced me more than anything else to stay in the business, I woke up one morning… and I had a dispossess under my door, an eviction notice and everything. I went over to Lubber Patterson and I showed him this eviction notice. I said, look, I have to stop this and get a job I said because these people are telling me within another 15 days they're going to throw me out of this apartment with my wife. Ah, he got up and he got every suit, every little ring, anything that you can possibly put together to get up some money and he said, well, I showed, go with me. And he went to the pawn shop and he pawned all this stuff. From that moment till now I was going to try my best to be a success for him. That was my first and last best friend in this whole wide world and that was the first person that had convinced me that I was worth something and that's how I made up my mind I'd stay in, in for him more than for my self.

It was only the beginning.

It was only the beginning, exactly.

I forgot one question about the Drifters. When we were talking about "Save The Last Dance For Me" it crossed over in a big way to the pop charts. It was a major hit. It also made the Drifter internationally famous. What do you think it was about the sound of these records that made them so successful?

I would imagine and, and "Save The Last Dance" and, and a lot of the other Drifter songs did that great, did something that everybody today dreams of having happen, it crossed over on its own. In other words it took up an extremely wide, wide population of record buying people and it just never stopped. And, and the Drifters happened to fall over in that area and basically again, and it's not so much trying to pat him on the back, again we have to allow that to be because of Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller's arrangements. We, ah, was so familiar with records sounding the same and they were the only brave soldiers that would take a chance and make it different. And by them doing that allowed everybody to just pick up on it and say, hey, here is something different and it's not garbage, it's good, it's, it's clean, it's quality, you know. And, ham, they had, I always Jerry and Mile tailor-made suits for me when it comes to song, it just fit perfectly. You didn't have to force it on anybody, it just was a perfect fit and they knew how to do that.

So now we move on to "Stand By Me".

Can you tell me how you wrote the pop classic, one of the great songs of all time, can you tell me how you wrote "Stand By Me", where the inspiration for that came from?

I think that what happened when I wrote "Stand By Me" one of my, one my favorite singers of all time would be Sam Cooke. He was with a group called the Soulsters and, ah, they had a song called "Lord I'm Standing By" or something like that and I just snipped that a little bit out and I went home one night and I grabbed my little guitar and I started playing around with that and I started thinking about all the things that I loved the most and, and the - stand - would just pop in my and I'd start right and I'd say stand and I, I just kept it in with that for about 20 minutes and I just, all of a sudden the title fell in place "Stand By Me". And just from that I started writing the song which didn't take me long at all to write it. And, ah, the story about "Stand By Me" as well is that I was writing it although, I had more or less left the Drifters I was still friendly with the guys 'cause I could understand why they didn't come out of that door with me. And I, we were, we were, and then we were still buddies, you know, not be in the group and lose all my friends was a whole ‘nother things. So we had kind of gotten our friendship back in gear. And I told them about this song that I wrote. And I took it down to Charlie Thomas's place and rehearsed it with the guys. They loved the song. And they said, look, we have to take it down to George and we have to do it for him. So they took the song and along with myself, we all went down to George's office and here I'm standing in there again that I thought I'd never do and the guys were singing the song and after it was over he lifted up his head and he looked at me he said, he said Benny it's not a bad song but we don't need it. So I took the song, I tucked it under my arm and, ah, left the office for the last time. I got to the studio to record with Jerry Leiber, Mike Stoller, we had done a few songs and we had some time left over. And, ah, Jerry said, look, we have a few minutes left over, do you have anything, you know, that you've written or whatever? And I shoed this song that I had written for the Drifters but they didn't want it. He said, ah, it feels good. So he called the musicians back in. We did it right then and there. We did what's called a head arrangement, that's something real quick, thrown together. And that's how "Stand By Me" was born. I would imagine if you hear the… the feeling in "Stand By Me" if you said, oh, you sound so sad, I was very sad because I had no intention of singing this song myself at all not at all. I had never even for a, a moment thought I'd be recording "Stand By Me". I just knew that, ah, the Drifters was going to hear it, like it and record it. So when I, when I showed it to, to Jerry and it just happened like that I just, I just sung it like that.

Was it the only song you did that session?

Ah, I think that was with, ah, the session we did "Spanish Harlem" and a few others if I'm not mistaken. So we came out of there with a, a few hits that day.

In four hours.

Yeah, that's right.

You recorded and started a solo career in four hours, pretty impressive. So you remember Phil Spector being there for "Spanish Harlem"?

Phil Spector was in the studio doing a lot of this, a lot of recordings of the Drifter's stuff. He was definitely there when, ah, we did "Spanish Harlem." The bit that does that, ah, dee, dee, dee dum, dum, that's Phil Spector's trademark for "Spanish Harlem". He's, he's very talented. I knew he was talented because, ah, he was one of the few that would walk over to Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller and they would stop and listen. So I said, ha, ha, somebody got something here.

Here's a question for John, so why do you think "Spanish Harlem" was a hit?

The thing that I liked most about "Spanish Harlem" the reason I think it was a hit is because it was, it was so different. And again, like I said earlier about Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, when, when they go out, go out to do something different it's going to either be the greatest thing that ever happened or, or it's just going to fail right, right away with no in between. And when I did "Spanish Harlem" because and again you have to allow for the fact that they, they had a feeling at this point of how, how to record Ben E. King and before they, this is coming out of the Drifters and "Spanish Harlem" really to be honest with you again, I, I guess if there's a reason why I'm in this world it's to be a singer because I don't try to be. When I recorded "Spanish Harlem" that should have been a Drifters song because it was a snow storm, I got to the studio to record because Atlantic Records wanted me to continue the sound of the Drifters. So I made arrangement with Jerry Wechsler and Armad Urdigan that I would come in, just for scale, and, and do some recording as if I was still in the group with the Drifters. So that was okay with me. I got into the studio by myself and the other guys couldn't make it and "Spanish Harlem" was in, in the session. So I did that, finished it and Jerry says, ah, Jerry Leiber says, what are you dong now? I said, well, nothing really, I told about the agreement that I made with Abit and all them. And he said, well, what are you going to do about your career? And I said, well, nothing Billy. And I had no, no plans for doing anything. And he said… well look, let me speak to them at Atlantic and see what could be done. He went to Atlantic and he spoke to them and… he convinced them to let "Spanish Harlem" be my first side as solo artist. So if it wasn't for Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller there would be no Ben E. King _____. The first…

So just after that marathon session, how did these songs change your career?

I would, I would imagine my career was changed by these songs because each song was different. One of the most rewarding things, ah, that I've been given by the producers and, and the writers and the company Atlantic and they're not even aware of it, is that each song that you've ever given me have, has its own identity. And a song like "Spanish Harlem" for instance couldn't have been anything but a hit because it was just so strong and, and lyrics, it was one of those stories that make, make you think, long before John Lennon, I'd say, say "Spanish Harlem" was the first thinking song, you know - There is a rose in Spanish Harlem. You're not really talking about a rose, are you talking about a rose or are you talking about a woman? A red rose up in Spanish Harlem, it grows, da da da, you know, it comes through the concrete. It's, it's one of those songs. It was one of the first thinking songs. And because of the orchestration it was one of the most brilliantly done arrangements. To this day and I use horns when I use the arrangements but it's just as beautiful. See, so each song that I got from Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller whether it be "Save The Last Dance" whether it be "Spanish Harlem" whether it be "This Magic Moment" whether it be "I Count The Tears", "There Goes My Baby", "Stand By Me", "I Who Have Nothing", "Don't Play That Song", I get on stage and I can sing it each one of them and I'm not following any pattern 'cause each has their, their own thing. And that's one of the greatest feelings in the world as a singer.

Liberated in a sense.

Yeah, gave me complete freedom, hmmm.

Your recordings, yourself and with the Drifters were very influential. Did you hear your sound spread into productions of Motown or other centers that were producing music at the time?

You know I've been told that, ah, most of the singers whether it been Marvin Gaye or whoever I've been told as well like Teddy Pendergrass likes all the things that I've done with the Drifters and afterwards. So I would imagine that a lot of the things that were done by myself and the Drifters did pour over to Motown 'cause you can still hear the softness of the things that they created that was very similar to the things that came out of Atlantic. So I too, believe that they did pick up on that quickly and, ah, made, made a very successful company and some very successful acts through the, the following of the Leiber and Stoller arrangements and, ah, ways of handling the strings especially all the Supreme stuff. I mean you can just, it's all over that, you know. [sings] “why don't you baby, get out of my life, why don't you, baby, you don't love me, you just keep me hanging on.” It's that same texture, you know. So I'm sure they were greatly influenced by what happened with Atlantic and through the producing this stuff with Jerry and Mike.

How do you think it was different, the Motown sound from what you guys were doing?

I would imagine the different between Motown and Atlantic was they stayed more to the roots of music. They used what we call the heavy bottom. That's the bass and the drums. And when Atlantic and Jerry and all them had found a new niche for sound they used just top level feelings in their music and left the bottom out as such. They didn't use the bass like, like in the, all, all the Motown things has some tremendous bass line, you know, especially the Temptation or Four Tops stuff, that heavy bass line. And Atlantic was doing just the reverse. Atlantic had done _____ so they found a way of getting the texture from Atlantic but with the R and B bottom. So they, they matched those together perfectly.