Please go ahead.

I was born in 1938 and went to school in the liberated zone during the Resistance against the French. After that my school was bombed down by the French and so I had to stop my education temporarily. When peace came again, I was very happy because I was now able to go back to school again. In 1958 the Diem regime had a policy of "military obligation" and young people were press-ganged into the army.

By the beginning of 1959, while I was still in school, I was drafted because I came of military age. I became a civilian guard and stationed in a village. My commander was a policeman named Cai. He forced us to train and to do guard duties for him. And he forced us to go out every day to terrorize the population and to arrest the village inhabitants who were our relatives and friends. This was in order to carry out revenge against the former Resistance fighters. In the meantime, he forced us to trained extremely hard every day and every night.

We had to cross rivers and fork canals and waterways in search for former Resistance fighters. These were our relatives and people who were my very young friends who were only children during the Resistance but who was now nevertheless considered Communists. They were arrested and imprisoned. In 1959 Diem decreed the Law Code number 10/59 and dragged the guillotines all around to execute former Resistance fighters and even soldiers in his own army who were patriotic and who were sympathetic toward the people.

Diem used the Law Code no. 59 in order to rationalize their execution too. Living under such a repressive regime and under an extremely brutal commander who forced us to kill our people made us soldiers feel that it was impossible for us to continue that way. This was because the victims were people whom we had known for a long time and who were only innocent citizens ever since the Resistance period. Now, all of a sudden, the Diem regime branded them as Communists.

And the patriotic people who had formerly opposed the French and who, now with the Geneva Agreement, wanted to stay behind in peace were now nevertheless considered Communists. And repression against all these people continued unabated. In face of this situation, we soldiers became very outraged. On October 2, 1959 we decided to kill Policeman Cai who was our commander and went to join the ranks of the people.

When we went to the people, they greeted us very warmly. After that, I met with Comrade Phuc who became my commander. And I was allowed to fight with the Liberation Forces. And from then until now, I have been fighting in my native province of Ben-tre. And until today, I have been taken care of by the people. And I am determined to help in the protection and rebuilding of my native land after the entire region of the South has become completely liberated.

Before the 2nd of October what did they force you to do? Relocate the population and what else?

Before the 2nd of October Diem carried out repression against the former Resistance fighters. At that time there was no strategic hamlet yet and, therefore, there was no relocation of the resident population yet. But every day they forced us to go around the village to flush out the patriotic people and arrest them and send them to prisons.

After that, they came out with Law Code 10/59 which served to arrest all former Resistance fighters and patriotic villagers. Even people who refused to give them bribes were branded Communists and arrested. Every day they brought people back to the police post in the village and tortured them in the most brutal ways. They even captured girls and brought them into the fort to rape them and torture them. The forced us to go into the village and arrested these people for them.

I don't remember the exact date. But I remember that one day they arrested a man, whose name has now slipped my mind, while this man was holding a ritual, offering food to his ancestors. They led us to the place and told us to surround it. A peasant man was then taken prisoner and roughed up right on the spot. After that, they dragged this man all the way from his house on the road to the police headquarters where he was again tortured. After that he was sent to the provincial jail.

This was the kind of thing that we had to confront everyday. They forced us to go searching in the village, to crawl into people's houses to spy after them and to find out whether these people were saying anything suspicious at all. It was clear that there were working families who stayed up a little late at night to discuss their work when the soldiers came, accompanied by the police commander, who said that talking at night meant that these people were Communists. And so he arrested them and had them roughed up.

Then he would released them and then walked away. This was the thing that kept on happening. In face of these brutal acts, we became very outraged. But we did not dare to say anything at all because we were soldiers under the authority of that commander. If we dared to open our mouths and expressed our sympathy with the people, he would certainly have applied Law Code 10/59 on us and have us court martialed. In fact, whenever we were slow in arresting or beating up the villagers they had us roughed up right away.

Could you ask him how he personally decided that he would change sides and could he describe what he actually did and how he felt afterwards?

What made you decide to change sides? What did you do, and how did you feel afterwards?

After having lived under the Diem regime and under the command of the police commander Cai who terrorized, arrested and tortured innocent people and branded them as Communists – he even forced us to go out every day to search patriotic people and former Resistance fighters who wanted to have the Geneva Agreement implemented and innocent people whom they had branded as Communists – and who even had us beaten up whenever we were slow in arresting and beating people up, we realized that it was impossible to go on like that.

Faced with the situation when more and more innocent people who were my relatives and friends getting imprisoned every day and with the press ganging of the young people into the army in order to "Advance to the North" and fight near the DMZ, I and my friends thought that sooner or later we would be sent north to fight against our compatriots. At that time people in both regions wanted to have the Geneva Agreement implemented and yet the Diem regime wanted to send us to the north as mercenaries to shoot and kill our own people. Faced with that situation, I decided that I had to come back to the people. That night I used a rifle to shoot the commander, Policeman Cai, and went back to the people. After I came out and joined the people, they protected me and educated me.

Those soldiers who supported and did not support the revolution. What did you think of their activities? What did you think of them as people?

Among the soldiers in the fort there were those who decided to come back to the people, there were those who were hesitant and did not dare to defect because they knew that if they shot at the commander and joined the people their families would certainly be terrorized later on (but these people were very hesitant in their activities and did not have the heart to shoot and kill their own people), and the majority of the soldiers had to follow orders although deep down in their hearts they did not want to do so. And, as I found out later, these latter people eventually left the enemy ranks and joined the people.

Some joined the revolutionary forces and some went back to their villages to be ordinary working citizens again. It was not necessary for all of them to join the revolution. They realized that if they just became good citizens and did not remain as soldiers who had to kill their own people, then that would be enough. Many people did not have the opportunity to join the revolution because of their own family situations. So these people left the army and became working people. I learned later that those soldiers who were with me in the fort almost all left the Diem's army. Only a few remained.

He said most pe—despite his example most people in ARVN stayed in ARVN. Why does he think that was? He said it already? Alright then.