My name is Earl Young.

What is rock and roll to you?

Okay, ah, ah, maybe next question here because we've never considered rock and roll, see, it's, it's really, ah, music and I don't know, some people say rock and roll, rhythm and blues but it's always been just generally music to us. When you come in the studio you're just, you're just here to play music and if it's disco, rock and roll, R and B, to us it's just music.

... give me a little bit of that background.

Well going back to the early days, I really started out playing in a place called the Uptown Theater which is something like the Apollo Theater in New York City and working out as a house drummer you get a chance to work with some of the best entertainment in the world. Like, I played for Jackie Wilson, actually his drummer didn't show up so being a house drummer I had to play, play his music and I was like scared to death because I mean Jackie Wilson, wow. And just luckily they gave me the music and I just sat through it and ran it off. And that was one of the greatest experiences of my life.

How did you get to Gamble and Huff …?

Well actually I was playing before Gamble and Huff. I started out with my two partners, Norman Harris and Ronald Baker which is, which Ronnie is the bass player and Norman is the guitar player which they have deceased now but we used to have a, what you call like a street band and you go from clubs to clubs and you put your stuff on the back of a U-Haul, you got out of town and play. So we played, we actually played together for a while and Norman got into the studio I would say first and he was working on a couple projects, little things. Then Ronnie came in as a bass player. And it just happened one day a drummer didn't show up and they say, well, they call me up and I said, go into the studio and play after, I'm used to really just playing in house bands and clubs. So I went, I went in there, I was kind of frightened to death. They say, look, don't worry about it. Just go here. When, when I, when I nod my head just make a fill because I had no experience of studio work. And I got in the studio and I played my first record. And I say, geeze, I did it. And I got paid a hundred dollars. And after I made a hundred dollars, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. And I studied and I got books and, and I practically learned myself how to play. I mean nobody sat and taught me how to play or what I should play, I just played what I felt. And it came about, coming out on records. And I, actually when I ran into Gamble and Huff, Gamble and Huff was coming into the studio and he was putting some tunes and stuff together and Norman, Norman went in there first and Ronnie went in there so they, so they got me again. They say, well, look, just, they always play together so we want to put them all together, that kind of formed the rhythm section. By, by traveling all, all the time we had like a close bond. And we were, I think we started with, with artists like Joe Simon, "Drown in the Sea of Love" and the Intruders. And like once you get one hit record it's like, it's like a thing where they won't use anybody else because they was like a good luck thing. And we just started to record together and it was Vince Montana and Bobby Ely and where one went, we all went because that formed a sound and the sound wasn't just because they say, well look this is what I want you to play. I would say, the sound started because I brought into the studio what I thought should sound good on a record. Vince Montana brought in what he thought, Bobby Ely and Norman and so forth. And when it came together, it came together actually of everybody playing their self. And when everybody played theirself or what they felt on a song, after they've heard the song it just, it, it just was so much energy, it was, it was so much energy in, in the recording that it had to come out to be a hit record.

Tell me something about who you were listening to, something about the sound.

Well, by being, by loving drums, by loving drums, we, you know, which I always will, I had a certain kind of music that I preferred to do which is, I call, these are called a fat back, like I'm a R, I'm really an R and B drummer. I like hard-core music. I'm not really a jazz drummer which I can play jazz but I like hard-core, funk music. And I would say one of the greatest persons that I was, my experience was Wilson Pickett, he's a real funk master. So this is what I like to do. And when I, when I was cutting with the O'Jays, I, when they say the O'Jays are going to record, I ran to the studio because I know the kind of music that they were going to be doing, you know, it was, it, I mean it was like, like me creating my own songs. And that's just what I like to do.

What is funk?

Well my impression of funk is, is something that you feel inside, something that you feel inside of you when, when, see, I like to dance so if you like to dance you like dance mu., I like, I love dance music and it's, it's a vibe that you can feel like, like if you was playing with a singer and a singer sends off a certain vibe that makes you feel good, you play good. I don't care whether if you're playing jazz, if you're a jazz musician and whoever is leading that, they have to be able to lead you and, and you just feel those certain vibes. And when I, like when I play, I play with, within my, I mean like my whole body, my whole body is playing not just the eyes to the music, the charts, I play with my, my whole body. And I keep time, I mean like keeping, like keeping time you have to be able to do that.

Can you give me an example of a drum beat, funk it up.

Let's see [drums]. Now these are the kinds of things you don't hear any more because they don't use the funk any more, I mean Parliaments, the Parliaments are the only place you can hear that but, ah, that's my kind of music, that's my kind of music. I like, I like the funk, you know.

What did you think of James Brown?

Funk master, funk master, number one, number one, that's my man.

Say James Brown is.

James Brown is definitely number one funk man. I mean he's always been and he always will be.

What was it about him?

He just sends off, when he hits the stage or anywhere he's at, he just sends off a message that you just got to get with me, just get with me. And, and if you can't get with him, he'd know it, he'd know it. Of course he's got, I mean like, see I like to work, I, I like to work with the old artists like Otis, like Otis Redding. These are the people I admire because they didn't have to have music. They didn't have to have music to, ah, to, to get down they just can go on, they, when they walk in a room and, and just start stomping, you, you notice that this place is going to be on fire, you know. That's like my experience with, with, with Wilson Pickett who I think is, is, aw man, all the way back from "Land of 1,000 Dances". When we did Wilson Pickett, ah, just to elaborate a little bit on that, when, when he came to Philly and they say, we was going to do Wilson Pickett, I say, Wilson Pickett, we're going to do Wilson Picket! I was in my glory because I mean this is a man that I admired, I, I've always admired since, since, even before I started playing when I was in, in the basement dancing, you know and when he came into the studio it was like the room lit up. I said, oh oh, we going to jam, we're going to jam today. So, so Gamble and them came by and we was recording this song called, "Don't Let the Green Grass Fool You". And when you hear the title you have no idea of how a song goes 'cause you're a musician all you know is "Don't Let the Green Grass Fool You", it could be a ballad. So they give, pass little charts out and they will say, here this is how it goes, it goes [sings] Don't let the green grass. So Pickett, Pickett walks in the room, he says, wait a minute, ho, uh, uh, uh. That ain't what I want...

_...?

Alright, I'll tell you one, one of my real greatest experience. When we were at, at Sigma and we was going to record Wilson Pickett so we're sitting there and they said Wilson Pickett is coming in today. I said, oh my God, Wilson Pickett. So we pass all the music out. Wilson comes in the door, he comes in the door the vibes, I said, geeze, we're going to funk this up today really. So we pass all the music around and Gamble was explaining to us, this is how the song goes it goes [sings] Don't let the green grass. I said, oh man 'cause you don't, you don't really know how a song goes. So I said, this is going to be, I said, how are we going to play this here? Is it, is, is it a shuffle because, because Pickett don't do a lot of shuffles. I say what is this? Okay, it will be like a shuffle, like a rock and roll, I said, okay. So we tried a little bit of it and I say, so Pickett was standing in the back, he was standing in the back listening to it. After a while he said, uh uh, stop, stop, that ain't it. This is the way I want it at. Stepped up there, bat, bat, bat. I said, now we're going to kick it out boy, now that is it. So I sat down there, he say, [drums] I say, now that's a, I mean we ran it, I mean, I think by playing drums I was so busy just watching him over, just, just watching him over there, just, sh., shaking his head, you know, 'cause you forget all, you really forget all about playing. But with him standing there and every beat, I think I was playing, he was, he was just there like he was on a live gig. And I think that helps a lot of the energy when the artist is there with you 'cause when the artist is there you know exactly what, a lot of times they don't have the singers there with you and just give you a little piece of music and you have to figure it out how they're going to sing it. But that's one thing I would say about the Philadelphia sound because we always had the artist there with us and before we do any kind of recording we always have a chance to talk to the artist, ah, get a, a personal feel about him, little joking, you joke and you laugh and then all of a sudden they tell you what they want so then the joking stops. But then you get to, you get to know them first, then what they do they'll sing you the song and once they sing you the song you know exactly what to play so it's not just picking up a piece of music and saying, I wonder how this song goes? They stand there and they show you how, how they want it, the feel that they want and the energy and when it comes out on, on, on records, it was just like they were there singing and, and they have to sing over top what you're playing but it's just like they were singing live. And that's, that's really part, I would say that helps to build up your sound.

Were the O'Jays there …

The O, let me see, ah, they were always in the studio because, because usually, usually Gamble would, would go over they would go over a song with them while you, while they're there and you would play and they would, they would sing, they would sing it right there while you're playing and that would give you the idea of, of how it goes. That way you would know, I, I would know whether I can make a fill here or whether I shouldn't make a fill there or if, if I have, if they feel what I'm playing. If, maybe what I, maybe, maybe I'm playing the wrong groove and they can't get into it. So we always had the artist with us always. And it was, it was good because it, it I mean we, we got to know the artist personally and I was glad because if I was out of work and they needed a drummer I can always call on them and say, look, man give me a gig, you know. And that, that's the fun part of it.

…

Ah, "I Love,.. "I Love Music" was really like a, it was like a, a groove. A lot of the songs that, a lot of the songs that we recorded was just done on the spot like, like, ah, Norman might start a, a little groove or Bobby Ely or Vince might start a groove and, and then I might pick it up with something like this here [drums] now that's the groove to, to "I Love Music" and if I was playing something like this here [drums] Gamble would say, naw, naw, that ain't it, let, let's try something else. Then I might fly with [drums] 'cause I have like a hundred, hundreds of different drum feels in my head so it's, it's whatever one that the producer likes. I might have an idea of something I like that I think would fit but I'm, but, but he's paying me so I have to make him satisfied. So when I came up with the one like [drums] I love music, - perfect, we're going to use that. And then the, the combination of, of, of another musician falling in on that groove, adding his part, you might say Bobby, okay, you get in there and you play. So Bobby might come with a figure like, [vocalizes] and it just fits right in the pocket. And Vince might come in or Norman. So we, we automatically, what we wind up having is a instrumental without word, I mean the music was so good you could take the words off of, of the song and put it out, and put it out, that's the same thing that happened with the, the sound of Philadelphia with the "Soul Train" theme. They can just take words off and put out instrumental because the music was, the band was just that tight. So we create, we, we create in the studio. I mean everybody, if, if anybody ever ask, what is the sound of Philadelphia? Nobody can say that they're responsible for the sound of Philadelphia. It didn't belong to anybody here, it belonged to everybody because everybody came in the studio and did what they felt and put their own ideas and energy on a chord chart and a chord chart is only made up of basic changes, it doesn't have, well, give me a bass, I want 2-4 here, [drums] it doesn't have that, it just have 4 bars, 8 bars, 16 bars whatever, then you use what you got up here. So, when they say, oh, the sound of Philadelphia belongs to Gamble and Huff. It belongs to Gamble and Huff because we as musicians and as a unit came together and he was paying us to play for him on his songs but the sound of Philadelphia does not belong to Gamble, it doesn't belong to Huff, it doesn't belong to me, to, to any of us it belongs to the whole unit because if you took out one person, the sound would change: if you took out a drummer, if you took out a guitar player, vibes or piano player. That's the way it all starts at. I mean Huff would come in and play, play us piano but he could sit there and play that piano all night long, it wouldn't be nothing until a bass player came in with, with, with his, his, ah, thing like, ah, the song "Bad Luck", ah, the bass line [vocalizes] these things that, you know, these are things that you don't write on charts. When you hear a bass line like [vocalizes] these are things that somebody came in and said, man, dig this here and play it. And then I might, man, that sound great man, let me put it [drums] and that's it. And the song is put together just that way with one musician playing something, another musician hearing it, putting his idea to it and it comes to be [vocalizes] and, and, but we don't own the song so they can't say that, ah, the musicians did this, they have to say, well, it's a Gamble and Huff song but they didn't tell us what to play on that so the sound of Philadelphia is based around all the musicians living and the ones dead. Now I won't say strings and the horns 'cause, because the strings and the horns were used like the MFSB is, is basically, almost the same as the … orchestra because it use the same people. The only difference in that is that their ranges are different like Vince Montana would arrange his way and his sound. Bobby Martin would arrange his way. Norman Harris would arrange his way. And, ah, Bobby Ely would arrange his way. So it was up to the arrangers up here of how they feel that the licks are going if you should go. So this is what the difference in, in, in each song in Philadelphia because of Gamble, Huff and Bell. Well Tommy Bell used to arrange most of his stuff but Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff didn't write strings and horns they would give you a, they would give you a piece of, ah, a song when it's finished and say, here you put some horns on this here. So very seldom did people look at a record and say, ah, this was horns done by Vince Montana or horns done by Norman Harris. They would look at just one thing, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes. That's it. So the little people never get credit for what they do on records, you know. And this is why, this is, this is like, this is like a joy to me because now people, people are really seeing what a musician goes through, how much, ah, time they put into their tools. And, but it's in joy. This is, this is what we do.