Can you tell us a little bit about the music that you heard? Can you tell us that you grew up in Tyler, Texas and what your musical background was there.

All right. Uh, my musical background in Tyler, Texas was quite outstanding. Uh, I grew up with, uh, with high school teachers who were in bands, they could play music. And we had a nine piece band there in Tyler, and I joined them when I was about, oh, 15 years old and traveled all over Texas in that band, playing for the elite oil people. Hah. And um, I was making about 50 bucks a night, and uh, it taught me, they taught me how to find my timing and to learn the songs that I wanted. So when I got ready to leave, of which I had that, had that in mind. By the way, I was singing when I was five years old. My sister and I both had the talent from mom and dad, and she was in opera and I was into pop and uh, rhythm and blues, anything, I was about a four octave singer. And uh, after that, like I said I joined this band in the school. And uh, we traveled all over Texas as I've said, and uh, I learned how to put a hundred keys in my head and the songs, with the songs. Uh, by heart. Because I knew when I left to go to start my career, you don't want to get in front of a band and say, uh, give me "Stardust" without saying D-flat. You know. And the people will say you're not a professional if you don't do that. So I had a hundred keys in, in my head and finally I left and went to California.

What kind of music were you singing to begin with? What field of music did you want to get into?

The music I wanted to get into when I went to California, was to, uh, get into, uh, pop, mostly. And the big band era was on at that time. I was doing the "Mona Lisa"s, the "Stardust"s, "Stars Fell On Alabama," all this kind of stuff. And that was my thing that I wanted. I did not want vocal groups. I was not interested in singing with a group because there's too much problem with groups in the first place. I can handle me, but four other guys was impossible. So I decided that I was going to be a big band, uh, band singer. When I got to California, uh, the big bands went out. And my manager that I was, you know, when I got there I sort of put my face in the place so to speak by singing with Johnny Otis and all the people in California and all those nightclubs. And I finally got with Blue Collar Robins. And of course I took on a manager. And he said, Carl, uh, what do you want to sing? I said, well, I want to do big band music. He says okay, he says, but that's going out now. You gotta sing rock and roll or rhythm and blues. I said, no, no, no, I want to do the things I come out here for. So uh, I thought about it, and he said, well, you gotta eat, you're going to eat, have to eat, you're going to have to do rock and roll or rhythm and blues. I said, let's do rhythm and blues. Heh. So, that's, there you have it.

What was the situation when you first met Jerry and Mike? What do you remember about the first meeting with them?

Well, you know, as I said I was with the Blue Collar Robins first. And they wrote a tune called "Smoky Joe's Cafe." I was the lead singer on "Smoky Joe's Cafe." And I was with the Robins at that time. I met them during that rehearsal, uh, meeting them in the studio, but we didn't get tight right then.

Let's start over and say, I met Leiber and Stoller.

Oh yes, okay. Now, I met Leiber and Stoller, with the Robins, by doing a song called "Smoky Joe's Cafe." But by the same token we didn't get too tight. Later one, uh, I went back to the Robins, we sang a little while around the city. And they must have had in mind that they wanted me to leave the Robins because the Robins were not doing the things he wanted them to do, such as stretch out. And I come, I come to California to become famous and famous with the moneys that I would make, not to have fun, and money with the fun. So he knew that. And uh, he called me, and said, he called me, he said, can you leave the Robins. I said I'm sorta tied up. So I said, the Robins had managers were kind of heavy, if you get my drift here. Heh. So this guy told me, said you better not leave. Being from Texas, I didn't know anything about gangsters and people like that, I had no fear of people. So I said, oh, yeah, I'm leaving, you can bet your life I'm leaving. He said, you're going to pay for it. I said, let's see. Let's see if you can make me pay. So I, I didn't leave. Leiber and Stoller came over the phone and paid for, for my lawyer, who was phony. And said, here's your papers man, you can get out of this now. And somehow I walked away and went with Leiber and Stoller and formed the group called the Coasters.

When Jerry and Mike would present a song to you, how did that go? Would they give you a demo, would Jerry sing it for you? How did they introduce you to a song?

In that era, there was an old piano in the studio, uh, we didn't use it, we used to go to his house in fact. The two of them, one played piano, which was Mike, and Jerry Leiber was the singer to put the songs together. Uh, so they would sit at the piano and he would play and they would sing, uh, "Down In Mexico," uh, "Youngblood" or whatever, and we would sit and listen. Now if we didn't like the song, we'd tell him no way. And he said, I don't want you to record anything you don't like because you wouldn't put your heart into it. And he was right. So the songs that they wrote for us we enjoyed and we put our hearts into it. And that's how we got started, in those days, you went to record companies not with a tape. You could go with your piano player, and play, and say, I want, I want a deal with you, and they can give you a deal with it. Now you have to have a tape, you have to have da-da-da-da-da. You know, that kind of bit. So that's how we got it, got it done in those days.

What do you recall about recording "Searching" and "Youngblood" and did you have any sort of indication or premonition that that might do something more than the previous records?

Yeah, well, "Youngblood" was a song that I enjoyed very much because it had the, a lot of soul with it. After we wore out "Smoky Joe's Cafe" by traveling and covering it, it came back, but the first rec-, let me go to the first record I ever recorded, was a thing called "Down In Mexico" with the Robins. That put us on the road. Then we came back and made "Searching" and "Youngblood." You see. So, uh, "Youngblood was a tune that I liked very much because it had the soulful thing in it, you know, lookee there, and I saw her standing on the corner, a yellow ribbon in her hair, you know, lookee there, and it's all about girls and things. So it was a happy song and I enjoyed doing that particular tune.

Were you surprised when that record took off the way it did?

No. I sort of knew that was going to be a hit, for some reason. Most artists don't know a hit. You can say I want this one to be a hit but it never become that way. The public decides that for you. You can never say, an artist can never say this will be a hit. But I knew that one would be.

Did that record make a change in the kind of audiences that you played for? Had you been playing mostly for black audiences up to that time or not?

No. Believe it or not my audiences were white audiences from Texas up to California. Because every show we did was for, like I said, oil people in Tyler, Texas. And they were all big people and, you know, very rich people. So, we didn't do too many black gigs in Tyler except for the school and the people who were, uh, say, finishing high school, and I would do that, you know, show for them, when they were finishing high school. So we didn't too much -- mostly white gigs.

Did you have some sense when you were doing these early Coasters records of aiming these things at a teenage audience? Was the whole teenage generation a big factor at that time?

We had no idea where rock was going in that era. Uh, we had no idea where rock was going in that era about teenagers or whatnot. We only did the songs and waited. And suddenly there's a hit and you go, wow, a hit. Now "Youngblood" was the A-side and it became a complete hit record. They turned it over on the B-side which was "Searching." That also sold a million. We were the first group to sell a double sided smash. Nobody in the world had done that. So I thought right away, what a heck of a group I have here. You know, because the talent was outstanding. These guys could do practically anything, including, including, uh, country and western. Billy Guy had that country and western voice, and he was from Texas also. So, uh, we didn't aim it at anyone except we did it and waited to see where it was going with it, or where it was going. And uh, later on, it became big and uh, we hit the road, on "Searching" and "Youngblood" stayed out there a year before coming back to record again. So the teenagers caught on like I said, they were doing the same screaming in my era as they're screaming now for kids. I don't know if people know that. And like I was talking to you before in the other room, it's a shame that, uh, I had to record all this stuff and get all these hits and teach others to sing, and give the world rock and roll as one of the founders, and everybody else making the money but us. I was very angry about that.

Tell me about whether the Coasters audiences changed after "Searching" and "Youngblood?"

Did they change?

Did they change?

Uh, did they change after "Searching" and "Youngblood." Uh no, we had the same audiences, black and white. Uh, and we hit the road with that particular tune all over the country. And we had different people in concert, we had black and white. Remember those were days of racial prejudice, you see. So uh, white was being, in an auditorium they had to be on that side, and blacks were on that side. So we had as many blacks as we had as many whites. But we also whites breaking the records, and we don't want that nigger music. Bam. They'd break 'em in them studio, everything. And along came Elvis. Heh. So uh, the, uh, rock and roll world was taking off. White people liked it and blacks liked it. But we had diehards who said we just don't want this nigger music. Far as I can say, I don't believe that they were mad at the nigger music, they were mad at the power that it would ensue. And money is the thing. Nobody wants to, uh, wanted us to have power of money to rise. You know, money is power, let's put it that way. Racial prejudice has never been a thing, a thing against me, it is power. I don't hate you, you don't hate me. It's power. So therefore, I uh, I uh, uh, sang for both races in these places. And along came Elvis as I said. And then said, here comes the King. Now remember we were twisting up there like anybody else, and Jackie Wilson and all of us, were dancing, bless him, pretty bit of dancing. And everybody was screaming, black and white girls. So the white girls looked at us and said, wow, I'd like to da-da-da-da-da. And we said we'd like to da-da-da-da-da too, but we had racial prejudice here, there is a thing, you can't be together, you see? Along came Elvis again. He made his moves and started dancing. But I want you to know, Elvis got his moves from Bo Diddley and Jackie Wilson. And he was never the king. Let me explain that now. Elvis -- I hate to do -- am I right to _____ Elvis right now? Anyway, Elvis, Elvis came in and started twisting and the white people liked him. But remember I told you there was racial music. So you, hold the point there. So we start twisting going on. They had a model. Because they couldn't handle, white girls couldn't come with me. But they had a man, a white guy who could twist his butt off. So they had a model and they built him as king. But the king, and real king, was Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and then you go with the groups, Jackie Wilson, Carl, the Coasters, the Platters, the Drifters and so on. And that is the story on Elvis Presley. And I love him though, because he broke it wide open. That's how you have to look at it.

Did you feel at the time when he came along that he was opening doors for black musicians or did you see that later?

I saw it later, you know. But Elvis did some, did very well, and good. But we didn't accept him as king. You know, I say, white people accept him as king, as I said before. But it also helped all of us. They stopped breaking records later on. But they still didn't allow him to twist on the Ed Sullivan Show. And Ed told him, don't you come here and twisting now, son. Elvis said, okay, mister, mister, uh, whatever his name is, okay, we won't twist. And he didn't that night. But later on he did his thing and people loved it.

Can you tell me about when Jerry and Mike would bring in a song that involved the kind of a play format, the dramatic format, like maybe we can talk about "Yakety Yak" and you sort of just run down how Jerry would work with the group on different voices, different parts, and say when we did "Yakety Yak," start it off like that so we know what song we're talking about.

Okay. 1958, I think, when we did "Yakety Yak" uh, Leiber and Stoller would come into the studio and they would, they wrote some of the songs with us sitting there. "Yakety Yak" was one, while we was sitting there, "Yakety Yak" was one. While we was sitting there, he was starting to write "Yakety Yak" and putting the words together. Every once in a while we would throw in something with him, they would accept that throw in, but we had nothing to do with that writing. We might throw a word in with it, you know, uh, after we throw that word in, then they would come on and he was, he would be out there howling "Yakety Yak" and Mike would holler, "Don't talk back" or something and they would keep on writing in that matter, and we were grasping as they went along with it. And so we'd look at each other and say, well, I like that one, you know? And when they got through with it, we already had the talent sitting there and what we wanted. So Billy Guy and I did the duets parts on it. I was the high part. "Yakety Yak!" Way up there. And Billy Guy had "Yakety Yak", down there. So it rhymed beautifully and it synchronized very well. And when we did it, it turned out later to be the biggest records that's ever done in history in novelty. Uh, it is a classic. It has been in seven movies. The astronauts awaken with it. We did a thing called "Yakety Yak, Don't Do Crack," a commercial, a partnership for drug free America. We did, Stevie Wonder and all the big artists did a thing in the environment, called "Yakety Yak, Take It Back" for the environment. So "Yakety Yak" is a record that will live forever and forever like "Stardust". And that is a forever record. So Leiber and Stoller wrote that, I hope they're getting the money for it because it's going to be one heck of a record for the rest of their lives. And Hoagy Carmichael wrote "Stardust", so he's dead now, but who gets that money now, the estate I guess. There you have it.

What about "Charlie Brown"? Can you tell us a little bit about recording "Charlie Brown"?

Now, "Charlie Brown", that was a song that I thought would go much better than "Yakety Yak". Remember in schools we have a "Charlie Brown" in every school in America, and he's always the clown. And I thought "Charlie Brown" would be the classic. But it turned out "Yakety Yak" became the classic. But "Charlie Brown" is still very popular across, across the world. Uh, "Charlie Brown" to me was like I was in school. And there was a "Charlie Brown" in my school, in your school and everybody's school. So we went to Europe, and when we got to Europe, and went to Germany, we went to the Berlin Hotel where Adolph Hitler stayed. And I was feeling to go, because I was, I'm a pretty old fellow myself right now, I'm 65, and I was in World War II myself. And it amazed me that I was staying in the Berlin Hotel and going to sing for these people. And on the microphone as we walked through the door, on the microphones in the lobbies was "Charlie Brown" in German. And I __________ behind how they did it was like: [sings in fake German] -- Charlie Brown." And I said, well, I be doggone in German. And that knocked me out. So then I really thought it was going to be a classic. But "Yakety Yak" turned out to be the classic.

How did the German audiences react as compared to American audiences?

I found out the Europeans loved us much better than the American audience. Why? Why did they love us better? It's because they didn't have the talent that America had. Over here we had literally millions of people who wanted to be an entertainer. And nobody gave them their just due or paid them any attention because they didn't make it all of them. Everybody tried to make it, everybody can't be a singer over here. And I was just more, uh, aggressive than others to make it. And uh, over there they were not taught rock and roll, and they didn't have blacks over there, as many then. So when we would do a record, it has to go by boat over there too, it was a very slow process. Excuse me. And uh, when "Charlie Brown" went out over there, uh, they enjoyed the heck out of it. And one thing they had to change. Who's always throwing spitballs? They didn't allow spitballs, they had to change it, but word they put in there, I do not know. But uh, they didn't allow that in that era, to say, who's always throwing spitballs. In America we accepted that. So it was a two-way street. In Europe they had things like you may court girls 16 years old, and over here, you could say spitballs but you couldn't court girls 16 years old. We have the funniest laws in the world between England and America. But they enjoyed it very much.