Please transfer this material to 16mm fullcoat and cassette.

How about the sound number on that?

Fifty.

Sound eighteen.

Okay, stop. Let's start over. Let's re-slate.

Speed. Okay rolling. Sticks?

After false start.

Oh, tell me briefly what your life was like in Vietnam in the '70s before April, 1975.

Before April, 1975 was a... the life was considerable convenience to the people. Even though we've been through the war and have had a lot of hardship and difficulties to the rural people, but at least we had the thing that's, you know, basic for the human; need and the freedom.

Specifically, what were you doing? What was your life like?

I was the... I was drafted in 1968 as a officer of the South Vietnam government and I was training through the Officer Academy and I became pilot in 1970.

Cut. Sound of plane.

I was drafted in 1968 and became officer of the South Vietnam government and 1970 I was graduated and became a pilot.

What did you do thereafter? What kinds of planes did you fly?

I flew a helicopter type from US made for the combat as well as the cargo and rescue.

What happened to you after the end of April, 1975?

Right after April, 1975 I was called and report to the Communist post and they send me to the reeducation camp.

Where were you? Where did this happen?

That's a first in Saigon. I was sent into Trang Lon with Tay Ninh, nearby the Cambodian border.

What was life like in that...?

The life in the...

Start again.

From that...

Yes.

Uh, well the life there is uh, I can't describe much to you but this is a more or less a jail, you know, type. But except we have to do all these, you know, work and we, you know, work in the outside and sometime they send us to the jungle to cut the tree trunk, cut the grass or clean the mine field to, for them to make a new economic zone.

Where you given lessons of some kind while you were there, and if you were describe what that was like?

Yes, they give us a, as I remember about nine or ten lesson which is mainly aimed to the American. First lesson I think, they said, American is our enemy and the world enemy. The second lesson I think is that South Vietnam government was puppet of the American imperialism.

Third lesson I think they said was our country and our people are brave and great, great country and so on but I think fourth or fifth they are talking about the communism and industry and how good we was and the last lesson I think was communist Russia is a great country, is our like heaven.

How long were you in this camp and what were the physical conditions like? How did you live there?

Well, the con... the physical condition is survive day by day and many people was killed and by disease. Because the condition is... you know, was no way you can describe here because of the people that... starving and the health conditions, you know, lower, lower because you malnutrition and hard working and in the evening, you know, we have to take the lesson.

They, they brainwash. Besides that, you know, they have other thing to tell you to do. So I been there four years, nine months and thirteen days and different nine camp.

How did you escape in the end?

Well at the end, in 1979, I think there's no hope... they're never going to release me as they said before and I see that their government is never going to be you know helping our people regain, you know, any human rights or freedom to our people as we wish. To be you know, independence and freedom.

So I said before I die, I have to, you know, escape. It's rather die free or you know, be killed.

How did you actually do it? How did you escape?

Well, I had to plan it for, actually I had to plan it three times. But I did not make it, because the control of the Communists in the camp is very tight. And they even have the spies who's, you know, very around me, who's can be my friend, who will sleep next to me. So we have to be, it's very secret and very clever in order to pass the eyes and the ears.

But on the last one that I planned with one more friend, he's a Special Force man, he was operating in North Vietnam before. And I was successful. And my friend was you know he was he was killed.

Because uh, I made a escape on the uh, a rainy night, in early morning about 5:00 still very dark, during the winter. So I think he passed the a little pond of water and he fell, and it makes noise through the water you know, and the guards turn around and shoot him.

I was about twenty feet away from him, but I was lucky the guard did not see me. I remained silent about one minute. And when the guard turned around to search for the others, or, you know, waiting for another sound, I start you know crawling and pass the fence.

And you went back to Saigon and then what did you do when you got back to Saigon?

Well I got back to Saigon, but I had to hide in around, four or five times I had to went, I went to Lon Kang mountain, the jungle area, to hide because they have so tight control.

Even my family cannot accept me, even you know stay overnight, because if they caught me in the family's house, they would throw everybody out in the street, and you know it's going to hurt a lot to women and children because you know, they have no place to sleep, to stay.

So I, in order to avoid that, I have to hide in around from place to place, in the market during the crowd, well that's the most thing keep me you know very helpless, situation.

At what point did you decide that you had to try to escape from Vietnam altogether?

Well, at the moment that I escaped from the re education camp, I made my mind that I had to escape from the country... all price. But to manage to do that is uh, the matter of money and a chance. Because not many, you know, a lot of people, I can tell you that 49 million people want to escape. But less than one per thousand made it.

The chance was lucky and the other involved with money. And since we did not have much money, so I had to manage by myself. Looking for the means through friends, through the uh, you know from other source. And I failed a couple of times. I almost caught by the Communists. And if I was caught I would be executed, because I was from as a prisoner.

And when you finally managed to escape, who did you leave behind?

I left my wife, my son, my family, all my beloved.

And how did you manage physically to get out of the country?

Well I had a friend who has owned a little boat, a fishing boat, and he doesn't know how to navigate. So I was planning all this trip and I made a little map and the route to where we going, the destination and I planned all the fuels and the course and all the other source like, involved with the wind, and encountered with the situation.

Because we escaped through a typhoon season. And we traveled five, five nights and six days with all storm, and all the navy and the ship was grounded, you know, I mean on base. When we entered Manila Bay there was no ship, out in from that area. And the Navy, you know Philippines Navy did not catch us until we get to the port.

Why did your wife and son not...

We should cut. There’s a plane.

Cut.

What were the reasons why you had to leave your family behind?

Because I could not... I had to leave my family behind because I had no means to take them with me. My son was five years old at that time, during that time. And escape condition is very dangerous, I have to swam off the shore, about half a mile to meet my little boat at night, dark night. And the chance was very little to survive.

Do you hear from your family now and what do they tell you about conditions?

Uh yes, I do have a contact with my family, but there's not much you can say through the letter.

Alright, slate it again.

Second slate.

I had asked you about communications with your family.

Yes, I have a contact with my family, but there's not much we can tell through the letter. All we have to say is the family is fine, you know and we're doing better now you know than before and I know that, you know, some sort my family's you know, is fine.

Under what circumstances, if any, would you return to Vietnam? Hold it. Cut.

Um, if you know the Vietnam regained or restore freedom and democratic, I would go back to my country, and to serve the country or to live there.

Earlier you said something about what your grandfather had said to your father and what you might not say to your son. Could you tell me that again?

Yes, my grandfather told my father that "your generation will live in peace and happy." And my father once told me the same thing "your generation will live in peace and happy. Because I have done all my life for you."

But I don't think we had that happen to our life yet and I don't think I'm going to tell my son the same thing, but I think that they're still going like that way, because we'd rather, we don't like the war, many things were destroyed, even the life and property, through the war.

As a victim, as a suffering from the war, the most in the war. But we still looking forward to be free, and to be you know a democratic society as our history and the culture has shown history that we always loved freedom.

Looking back on the last forty years of Vietnamese history, what lessons do you draw from it?

Through the forty years of history, the latest history, fought in French and the Communist war, we have learned that only the Vietnamese can solve the problem. And we have to base on our strength, the foreigner only acting as a helper, not a supervisor.

As long as we have someone to supervise us through the war, no matter what the nation, we lose. And our people will suffer again, and again. We'll never have our freedom and independence unless we stand up and do it our own way.

Cut. Great.