Rosa Parks, Daisy Bates and Lena Horne Appear at Site 3
START AUDIO
Geesey:
This is George Geesey back in
Washington as the Educational Radio Network continues its live coverage on the March on
Washington for Jobs and Freedom. Most of the activity at this point is centered on the
Washington Monument grounds where there is a stage erected and a lot of Hollywood stars have come here to entertain what now is a crowd of about 50,000 people. Let’s go now to our reporters at that area, and on the stage we have one of these entertainers. Let’s listen.
Davis:
This is Malcolm Davis from Site 3 on the stage. Right now, ladies and gentlemen, you’re listening to
Bob Dylan entertaining all the guests here.
Bob Dylan.
Bob Dylan singing. Singing con’t.
Male speaker A:
I now bring to you the Executive Director of the Committee for the March on
Washington, the man who organized this whole thing, Mr.
Bayard Rustin.
Rustin:
Ladies and gentlemen, I have come here to introduce to you two of the great, great heroes of this struggle. I want to introduce to you the woman who started our modern struggle for freedom because she got tired of indignity and Jim Crow and sat down. And, when
Rosa Parks sat down, a revolution brought forth.
Rosa Parks.
Geesey:
Bayard Rustin the 53-year-old leader we told you about who has been called by Martin Luther King a brilliant, efficient and dedicated organizer.
Parks:
Hello friends of freedom. It’s a wonderful day and let us be thankful we have reached this point, and we go farther from now to greater things. Thank you.
Rustin:
Now, I want to introduce another woman. She is important because she started the children’s movement, a movement of young people which culminated in the thousands of children who demonstrated in Birmingham. You know who I mean, Daisy Bates.
Bates:
Thank you very much. This is indeed a happy day for me. You know, sometimes in your life when you are fighting for freedom and human dignity your faith fails you, and you wonder whether democracy is worth fighting for, or whether you can ever be an American citizen in this country. But, something happened that renews that faith in democracy and in America and its people.
It happened to me in 1957 when the students of Little Rock walked alone through the mob. You cried with us, but we had to walk it alone. But your presence here today testifies that no child will have to walk alone through a mob in any city or hamlet of this country because you will be there walking with them. Thank you.
Rustin:
Ladies and gentlemen, I have been asked to make a very, very important announcement. Will those people who are near the fence kindly step back? I know it’s a very difficult thing to do but try, because someone has already fainted from the congestion in the audience. So try, please. Those who are pressing in the fence, please try and step back. Thank you. And now I take great pleasure and pride in introducing to you a person who needs no introduction, Ms. Lena Horne.
Lena Horne singing “Freedom.”
Rustin:
You can be sure she means every word of it.
Horne:
I have nothing else to say.
Davis:
Ms. Horne, would you care to say something for the Educational Radio Network?
Davis:
Ladies and gentlemen, we hope to be talking to Ms. Lena Horne. She’s standing right in front of me talking to officials at present. If you can bear with me for just a moment, we hope that we will be able to have a few words from her.
Geesey:
What was the fence he was talking about, people pressing up against a fence?
Davis:
Well that was the leader here just asking people to stand back momentarily. The point of that was that the crowd here is so pressing that they have moved forward completely and could completely engulf the stage area.
Geesey:
But there is a fence to keep them back, actually, from climbing up on the stage?
Davis:
There is a small fence here, yes there is.
Geesey:
And you have Red Cross tents near you, don’t you because they say one person is [inaudible]...
Davis:
There are Red Cross tents but they are approximately 500 feet away, and to try and get through a huge crowd like this is rather impossible to take people. It is so dense that you couldn’t hope to carry anyone through. We hope perhaps that this sort of thing will not happen, and the way it is being policed here we think that this sort of thing can be avoided. The crowd here is extremely orderly, very orderly indeed. George, now I’d like, if I can, to have a word with Ms. Lena Horne. Ms. Horne, could I...You aren’t feeling well?
Horne:
No, I’ll be all right. I’m going to get a drink of water and get with my marchers. I’m supposed to be over there organizing myself.
Davis:
All right, thank you very much, Ms. Horne. George, we were unable to talk with Lena Horne because unfortunately she is feeling rather ill, and she is being escorted back now to the March headquarters tent, and maybe later on we will be able to talk with her. Now, George, I think perhaps at this point we should turn it back to you to find out what’s happening in other areas.
Geesey:
All right, thank you, Malcolm. We have sites, of course, along many of the parade routes and these people will be standing by in about a half an hour if things run on schedule and I must admit they’re being a little bit behind the planned schedule. But hopefully at 11:30 the March leaders would start forming on Constitution Avenue and 17th Street, and then proceed down Constitution Avenue turning onto an angled street named Henry Bacon Drive, which will bring them out right in front of the
Lincoln Memorial where this large group is expected to swell maybe to 200,000 people. So far, police estimates are about 50,000 so far. That has to do, of course, with the large number of people that he just told to get back from this fence area, which Malcolm Davis explained is around the stage to keep back this multitude of people so that they don’t really press too far forward. One of our reporters from Boston has arrived. We’d like to switch now to our site located along the
Reflecting Pool where we’ve had several fine reports from Cal Nossiter. Let’s turn it over to her at this time.
A High School Teacher on Affiliation and Impact
Nossiter:
Hello, George. I am speaking now to Curt Crisfield, a Negro who is teaching in New York High School. What made you come down here, Curt?
Crisfield:
Well, I just felt that I had to and it took me perhaps a day or two to decide whether I was coming or not, but I decided I suppose even beforehand that it was more important to come than not to come.
Nossiter:
Are you with any particular group?
Crisfield:
No, I came alone but I came as an independent, but I came with a group of four people.
Nossiter:
Are you a member of any of the organizations that are participating and sponsoring here?
Crisfield:
Well, perhaps it’s just an individual attitude and you probably find more people down here than you might think who are here independently not only as, not just as spectators, but...
Nossiter:
Rather unaffiliated?
Crisfield:
Unaffiliated, unassociated.
Nossiter:
But not disaffiliated?
Crisfield:
No, but interested.
Nossiter:
I see. Do you personally think the March is going to have any positive effect on civil rights in the near future?
Crisfield:
Yes, I think so. When we came into Union Station the press was, well, the press are bound to be there, and some questions were asked of a number of people, one of which was myself. And one of the reporters asked if I thought that this would upset or bother some of the members of Congress. But I answered at that time, just as I’ll say now. Those who would be upset by the march would probably be upset anyway, and those who would not be upset and probably would lean towards favoring the March, are those who would have that attitude.
Anyway, now if that means that there would be no change in attitudes in Congress from the March, then that might be what it is. But I think that even those who, those Senators and Congressmen who might be recalcitrant towards some changes in attitude will realize that people who have come for miles that I’ve seen...I’ve met somebody from
Denver. I met somebody from
Missoula, Montana and I saw a group of students evidently from some place in
Idaho.
It just said
Idaho on their sign, and there are many, many people from
Boston and
Connecticut and from just everywhere. There’s a group from Oklahoma here. And if these people have bothered to come so far to stand in the hot sun, it’s a hot day, to suffer the difficulties that they’re going to find on the road, some of the entertainers didn’t show up on time. And all of these things together for a single idea, a single satisfaction let’s call it, then I think that even recalcitrant Congressmen will do, to come to understand that it might be a silent protest, it might be awfully quiet but it has a lot of meaning. And it should be very effective.
Nossiter:
So you think there is hope?
Crisfield:
Oh, no question about it and I’m glad that I came. I wanted almost to call my father and ask him to come along. He’s 77.
Nossiter:
I wish he were here.
Crisfield:
I was he was here, too, but I think he knows
Washington. He’d love to come for another reason. I’m just coming for the March, but a lot of people I’ve seen are very, very old people. I saw one woman faint up the street and they had to take her down in an ambulance, but she came. Where she came from I don’t know. It might have been from Arlington or some place. I don’t know. But it might even have been from
Arlington, Mass, but she was here. There are so many people here because they had to come.
Nossiter:
And the activity is picking up briskly here at the
Reflecting Pool so we’ll send you back now to George Geesey.
Chicago to D.C. on Roller Skates
Edwards:
And now we have Malcolm Davis standing by on stage with another interview with a noted personality. Please come in, Malcolm Davis.
Davis:
Ladies and gentlemen, we do have an extremely interesting guest standing with us here now who has just been talking to all of the people here. Sir, would you tell us your name?
Davis:
Now, sir, would you tell us how you came to
Washington and from where you came and by what means of transportation?
Smith:
Okay, I left
Chicago on the
17th of August on roller skates. I arrived in
Washington, DC on the
27th at a quarter to one.
Davis:
Tell me, sir, what sort of problems did you have? Did you take along spare wheels or spare skates.
Smith:
Well, I do have three sets of wheels that I carry with me, which I didn’t need. I didn’t need any spare wheels at all. And my skates held up pretty good.
Davis:
What sort of problems did you meet on this journey?
Smith:
There were times when people would cut out at me with their car. Say a place in Indiana a guy tried to run me down, but he missed.
Davis:
Glad to hear that. Tell me, were you allowed on the main parkways or did you have to travel by side streets all the way?
Smith:
No, I was more or less on the main streets but not the toll roads. It was the old highways that each city used.
Davis:
Now, of course, a journey on this on roller skates takes an enormous amount of strength and dexterity and you have to travel with luggage. What did you do about that?
Smith:
Well, I had been working out for I’d say over a week running five miles every day.
Davis:
And how long have you been doing this running and training for this particular trip?
Smith:
Well, I did this running and training for at least two weeks.
Davis:
Now that you are here, sir, would you mind telling us are you going to actually participate in the March or not?
Smith:
Well, I hope to march in the March if I can find my delegation. Since I’ve been up here, I can’t find them so I don’t know what’s going to happen.
Davis:
What are the chances that you won’t actually walk in the March but skate?
Smith:
Right, well, I don’t think I’ll be skating in the March, I don’t think.
Davis:
Can you tell, sir, if you have any particular plans that you intend to follow through while you are actually here?
Smith:
Well, I’m here I’d like to find my wife because she come up, and I haven’t found her yet.
Davis:
She didn’t come on skates?
Smith:
No, she didn’t. She came by train?
Davis:
Are you going to skate back?
Smith:
No, I don’t want to see those skates for a month now.
Davis:
Well, we certainly wish you lots of luck. This is Malcolm Davis on the stage at the foot of the
Washington Monument. Now, back to George Geesey.
Kennedy's August 21 Message to the Press Regarding the March
Geesey:
I think we’re trying to capture the flavor now. Some of the people who have come to
Washington, DC to enter in this protest and this March on
Washington for Jobs and Freedom, and we hope to be able to bring you a lot more of these interviews. From an official viewpoint now, President Kennedy made a statement at his press conference of
August 21st on what he sees happening in this March, and we thought we’d play now the highlight of this from President Kennedy’s press conference.
Kennedy:
The purpose, of course, is to attempt to bring to the attention of the Congress and the country the strong feeling of a good many thousands of citizens. I don’t know, of course...I mean, I don’t know how many are going to come. What we’re really talking about is a problem, which involves 180 million people. Not 180 million people it seems to me have been elected the Congress and elected some of us to attempt to deal with that matter. So that this issue does not stand or fall on the August 28th.
August 28th is a chance for a good many people to express their feelings. But it’s hard for them, a lot of other people to travel, it costs them money. Many of them have jobs so that I think what we’re talking about is an issue that concern all of our people, and must in the final analysis be settled by the Congress and by the Executive Branch working with 180 million people. This is an effort, however, to bring focus to the strong concern of a good many citizens. So that I think as I said before in that tradition I meet with the leadership in which I think it is appropriate that these people and anyone else who feels themselves, who are concerned should come to
Washington, see their congressman.
Geesey:
President Kennedy and his press conference on August 21st. At that same press conference, some Negro leaders it was said feel that the race is entitled to some kind of special compensation for the pain of what they call “second class citizenship” over the many years. The President was asked his view on this and suggestion of job quotas by race.
Kennedy:
Well, I don’t think that that is the generally held view, at least as I understand it of the Negro community that there is some compensation due for the lost years particularly in the field of education. What I think they would like is to see their children well educated so that they could hold jobs and have their children accepted and have themselves accepted as equal members of the community.
So I don’t think we can undo the past. In fact, the past is going to be with us a good many years of uneducated men and women who lost their chance for a decent education. We have to do the best we can now. That’s what we’re trying to do. I don’t think quotas are a good idea. I think it’s a mistake to begin to assign quotas on the basis of religion or race, color, nationality. I think we get into a good deal of trouble. Our whole view of ourselves is as sort of one society.
Now, that hasn’t been true but at least that’s where we’re trying to go, and I think that we ought not to begin the quota system. On the other hand, I do think that we ought to make an effort to give a fair chance to everyone who is qualified, not through a quota, but just look over our employment roles, look over our areas where we’re hiring people and at least make sure we’re giving everyone a fair chance. But not a hard fast quota as so much for the...We’re too mixed this society of ours to begin to divide ourselves.
Geesey:
Also, at that same press conference President Kennedy was asked about the importance of civil rights legislation in this year. President Kennedy answered...
Kennedy:
Civil rights legislation represents a response to a very serious national crisis. I don’t think that it’s a matter that should be put off to next year.
Geesey:
President Kennedy at his press conference on August 21st, and of course there is a delegation of leaders from this group planning this March for Jobs and Freedom today planning to see the President at the White House sometime this afternoon. Probably it’s scheduled between five o’clock and six. And if it happens and there are public statements made from the White House we’re prepared to bring that to you as part of our live coverage here on the Educational Radio Network.
We said there have been many changes that have taken place in the original schedule for what has been scheduled for today. We mentioned earlier that a lot of the church groups were to hold original meetings this morning and then it was discovered that there aren’t enough assembly places for all the States to meet individually. So that was cancelled. Congressmen were to have spoken to these groups, and a lot of Congressmen couldn’t come, but they said they would show up this afternoon at the
Lincoln Memorial.
Therefore, that part has been changed and leaders of Negro civil rights organizations and labor and religious groups are going to seek out the Congressional leaders this morning on
Capitol Hill. We’ve given you some of the reports on that. And the last report from the Police Department is that these leaders left
Capitol Hill about ten minutes ago and are now going to the assembly area on the
Washington Monument grounds.
Jackie Robinson on the Force of the African American
Male speaker B:
They’re ready to come to us if we want. Okay, they want.
Rustin:
...Mr.
Jack Pratt of the National Council of Churches and you know what the churches have done because the churches are here. Mr.
Jack Pratt.
Davis:
Ladies and gentlemen, this is Malcolm Davis on the stage. We have Jackie Robinson here at present. I’m going to hand the microphone forward. There is a possibility that we might be able to talk with him in a second or two once he is released by officials. At that time, Dave Edwards is going to be asking him questions and reporting on this. If you’ll stand by for a few moments, we will be talking direct with Jackie Robinson.
Right now, I would bring our listeners, George, up to date on the state here. At the foot of the
Washington Monument the entire ground is one mass of people, an enormous mass of people. And I have absolutely no idea. It is virtually impossible to see any grass around here, only the trees on the horizon and the buildings.
Geesey:
Well, Malcolm the official police estimate is now 100,000 people so that accounts for the mass of people you see there.
Davis:
For our listeners in
New York, George, I think they might like to know that there is a delegation here from the Lower East Side Civil Rights Committee. What you heard in the background then and I must apologize is a walkie-talkie from The Voice of America, and any moment now I do think we will actually be talking to Jackie Robinson. One of the awkward things that I must explain to our listeners here is that many of the celebrities who are up here on the stage are here so briefly that we are unable because of reports from other network stations to talk to them.
Geesey:
Malcolm, can you see the group of people leaving the area now? I understand from the Police Department that the marchers have started leaving. Can you see them leaving the 17th Street exit of your grounds?
Davis:
Yes, that is true, George. There are a few people leaving. Now, I’m going to give you over to Dave to talk with Mr. Robinson.
Edwards:
This is David Edwards on the stage. Jackie Robinson is standing here shaking hands with various of his well-wishers at the moment. We will be with him in a moment. Here he is. Mr. Robinson.
Edwards:
You broke the color line in baseball what seems like a long time ago, but there are a good many color lines remaining. What do you see as the next steps to be taken?
Robinson:
Well, I sincerely believe that the steps today that the Negro is taking is an indication that in all fields that the barriers have to come down. We’re not going to be satisfied with tokenism at all. And I know very well that all of us are going to continue our pressures and we are sure that things are going to come about very soon.
Edwards:
What ways do you think that action can most effectively be pursued now?
Robinson:
Well, I’m sure that a demonstration such as this will let the Senators and Congressmen know about the quiet determination that the Negro is having here. So I think this is obvious what we’re going to do.
Edwards:
How about more direct action projects, freedom rides, sit-ins and other boycotts under such programs?
Robinson:
Well, I think the boycott is going to come into being more and more because the Negro is recognizing their tremendous economic strength. We represent income more money than the whole of Canada. I think white businessmen are beginning to recognize it. The Negro now is beginning to recognize this tremendous strength and we’re going to use this strength to our best advantage. Businesses and industry that will work with us will get our cooperation. Those who will not then we’re going to just go some place else. It’s going to be as simple as that as far as I’m concerned.
Edwards:
Are you going to be marching this afternoon?
Robinson:
Oh, most definitely. So I’m the head of the
Connecticut Delegation. If I can find them among these thousands of people I’ll be lucky, but we are looking forward to it and we’re quite thrilled. I’ve never been so honored and thrilled in all of our life.
Edwards:
Thank you very much, Mr. Robinson.
Davis:
That was Dave Edwards who was talking to Jackie Robinson on the stage here at the base of the
Lincoln Memorial.
Along the Parade Route
Geesey:
Malcolm, as the marchers leave your area now, they are in view of Jeff Guylick who the march route on Constitution Avenue at 19th Street. So let’s call in Jeff.
Guylick:
I’ll look at 19th Street. It’s been very interesting watching the happenings for the past two or three hours. When we set up here about nine o’clock, the place was virtually deserted except for policemen. At that time, I estimated that for every civilian, there were at least ten policemen. It would be almost impossible now to estimate the change in that proportion. There’s probably a thousand marchers for every policeman in this particular area even though there have been a number of policemen all over.
The March has definitely been going by here now for about twenty minutes and it’s in full strength. The people are coming in a continuous mass down Constitution Avenue here. My estimate having just come down from the
Washington Monument is that these people will be going by for well over an hour, and I think the general activities will probably be running at least an hour late.
Geesey:
Jeff, what are some of the signs saying as they carry these placards?
Guylick:
A number of them are from the United Auto Workers. They say, “UAW says jobs and freedom for every American.” “We march for jobs and decent pay.” I saw one very interesting sign before which said, “The horses have their own television shows, dogs have their own television shows. Why can’t Negroes have their own shows?” There is one that says, “No US dough to help Jim Crow grow.” United Auto Workers says, “Catholic, Protestant, Jew will unite in this struggle for what’s right.” At about 9:30 this morning I spoke to one motorcycle policeman and at that time he told me and here I’m quoting, he said, “I think this
thing is going to be a big flop.” He had just heard on his police radio that there weren’t more than 7,000 people assembled.
Geesey:
Well, now, Jeff, the official estimate is 100,000 by the chief of police.
Guylick:
Well, within fifteen minutes after he said that, the estimate came over that there were 25,000. So it more than tripled within fifteen minutes. By now, the estimate as you say is over 100,000 and it seems that just about, wherever you go the 100,000 seems to be there. As Malcolm said before you couldn’t see grass at all around the
Lincoln Memorial. Here at Constitution Avenue and 19th Street, you can barely see pavement there are so many people.
Geesey:
Jeff, let’s try to call in Arnie Shaw who is at the corner of Bacon Drive and the
Lincoln Memorial. He should be able to see some of these marchers, too. Arnold can you join this discussion? Well, perhaps they haven’t met him yet. Jeff, go ahead. What are some more of these signs? Can you see any from the
Washington area, the home rule the local church groups and that sort of thing?
Guylick:
I haven’t seen any from the
Washington area. There have been a number from Virginia. I know right now coming down the street, I do see one from a church group in
Washington. As it moves past a tree here it says, “15th Street Presbyterian Church,
Washington, DC” A big yellow signed carried by several people. The great majority of the signs are the smaller ones a few feet square, which the individuals carry. And every once in a while you see a long one, which stretches all the way across the street which is borne by several people.
One is impressed by the solemnity of some of the people and others appear to be just having a good time sightseeing but the most impressive thing is that they all seem responsible. Even though there have been great preparations and everyone has made great efforts, those who are leading this march to make sure that there are no unruly demonstrations of any sort. In talking to officials around here, you expected that there would be a few unruly demonstrations, that in any place you assemble 100,000 people or more...
Geesey:
I wonder if you agree with this. The Police Department from their vantage point considers this a very slow and steady march almost like a church picnic. Would you agree with that from where you are on 19th and Constitution?
Guylick:
Well, it’s definitely, steady and it’s moving at fairly good pace. There are no delays right here. The people are going by quite steadily.
Geesey:
Are they jamming the street or is it a leisurely march?
Guylick:
They seem quite leisurely. As you can hear in the background now some of them are singing. Most of them are just walking. Some are eating their boxed lunches as they go along. This group right here now is signing. They’re carrying signs saying, “We demand an end to bias now.” Another one that says, “No US dough to help Jim Crow go.”
There was a big bus that came in here from
Virginia, a series of buses. There’s a red and black sign over there now that says, “The Catholic Union of America...The Catholic University of America.” I beg your pardon, that’s being carried. There are a number of student groups here that we’ve seen. We’ve been surprised in walking down the streets that everyone seems to be in fairly good shape physically. There have been very few people sitting on the side exhausted or sick. They always seem to be having a good time. There is almost an aura of sightseeing about it, and definitely earlier this morning.
The people who arrived last night got out here very early this morning. They were just kind of milling around very leisurely. Then about nine o’clock, the great mass of buses began to come down Constitution Avenue here and park up on 19th Street, and then the size of the crowd just kept doubling and doubling and doubling until now it’s well over 100,000, and they are not sightseeing any more. They’re walking solemnly, steadily. Some are smiling. Some of singing. All seem to be quite serious and quite satisfied with what they’re doing.
Geesey:
Jeff, at this time I think the first group probably is at the
Lincoln Memorial. Let’s see if we can call in Dave Eckelston and he can participate in this conversation. Dave.
Eckelston:
Thank you, George. Al Hulsen has arrived here and maybe he can describe how he got here and the parade as it is now.
Hulsen:
Thanks, Dave. I took a long walk up Constitution Avenue. It was about fifteen minutes ago just before the parade started in earnest. There was absolutely no difficulty walking up at that time. However, the policemen and the military police was getting everyone off the street, and it was necessary to walk along the sidewalk and grass.
From our position here at the
Lincoln Memorial, as you’ve probably heard before we can see directly across the
Reflecting Pool to the
Washington Monument, which is about a mile away and it’s from the point where marchers are still leaving. A good crowd of them has now reached the
Lincoln Memorial. To make a very off hand guess, I would say several thousand are already here. None of the dignitaries have come up on the podium and the seats that have been prepared for Congressmen and for some of the entertainers that you heard earlier this morning are also as yet unfilled.
Geesey:
Al, let’s try to estimate the length of this and go back to Malcolm Davis at the stage area on the Monument grounds and see if people still are leaving that area. Malcolm, can you come in? Malcolm Davis? He’s probably running for protection at this point.
Davis:
No, George, I’m not running for protection.
Geesey:
Oh, there you are. Go ahead.
Davis:
I was trying to say a few minutes ago that right now the whole crowd here in one huge mass is actually moving as a whole body toward the road to Constitution Avenue. Looking from the stage area right up to the
Washington Monument the top half has completely disbursed and except for the immediate crowd, a huge crowd right around the stage then in one huge mass group, they are now walking onto Constitution Avenue.
There are many, many plaques being held up in the air. This is an extremely colorful sight at this point. I could not possibly count how many plaques from the different organizations that are being held up. The Catholic, Jews, and Protestants Organization is immediately in front of me with their plaques and they’re saying that “We march together, Catholic, Jews and Protestants for dignity and brotherhood of all men under God now.”
The whole group is moving right towards Constitution Avenue and is forming very, very slowly moving from one mass into a giant column occupying the entire width of the street. I’m sure at this point Jeff is probably seeing the same sort of thing down there.
Geesey:
Yes, let me fill you both in on something. Four special trains have just arrived at Union Station and they’ve brought 4,000 more people just arriving in
Washington. Regular trains from just the regular service has brought in an additional 892 and another 4,012 people have just got off some more special trains. So these people are going to come directly to the
Lincoln Memorial. Jeff, what is the situation there right in the middle of Constitution Avenue between the
Monument and the
Lincoln Memorial.
Guylick:
Well, from our cell here at the
Munitions Building the actual type of the March has not changed. It’s still a mass of people with their red and white and blue signs. I imagine they’ll be coming like this, as I said before, for about an hour. From Malcolm’s report since there are still a large mass of people up at the
Washington Monument, I think this site is not going to change much.
One thing that surprisingly seems to be slowing the March down just a little bit, it’s not actually an obstruction in the road, but there is a large orange TV boom, a television camera boom that is extending out over the March into the middle of the street about a block from us here, down about 20th Street. And many of the people are slowing down to look to get a glimpse of the television camera and are looking and talking to some of the technicians down there. And this seems to be causing a little trouble.
But the March is going along steadily perhaps a little slower now than when it started because it’s such a great mass of people that are marching not only on the street, but on the sidewalks. And, as you can hear, they have started to chant now. There’s a group coming along here. They’re all carrying signs saying, “We demand decent housing.” “Segregation robs children of their birthright.” “Civil rights plus full employment equals freedom.” You can hear the chants.
They are going by now. Everyone wants to know why get these little clusters where they’ll be singing a particular song or chanting and then you’ll get a stretch of people who are just quiet, very solemn walking along. But everywhere you look, you see the signs. “NAACP,
Logan, West Virginia.” “Civil rights plus full employment equals freedom.” “We march for effective civil rights now.” The signs go on and on. As I look up Constitution Avenue from 19th Street toward where the March is originating at the
Washington Monument, all you can see are the green trees and under them the red, white and blue signs and under them a mass of people. Nowhere can you see the street even. You can no longer discriminate between the sidewalk and the street. It’s just masses of
people and signs.
Geesey:
But this is the expected crowd that they were anticipating. At least 100,000 at this point, and here’s a side note. Police have had to arrest one of the assistants of
George Lincoln Rockwell of the American Nazi Party for speaking without a license. That’s the official charge. Evidently, they did start a demonstration of some sort on the
Monument grounds, and police have had to arrest Carl Allen, the assistant to
George Lincoln Rockwell. The official charge is speaking without a license. Al Hulsen, you’re speaking from the
Lincoln Memorial for the ERN. What’s the report at that site?
Hulsen:
Well, at this time, the first band has passed. That would give some indication of how long it took. Apparently about a half hour to reach here. One interesting sign that we see right in front of us is from the Washington Home Rule Committee. This is a civil rights measure for
Washington. Not strictly Negro or White but for everybody. They’re asking for the vote here in
Washington, DC.
We had expected earlier to have some kind of meeting with this particular group at the Ellipse this morning but as far as my information goes that meeting was not held. Right in front of the
Lincoln Memorial is a green snow fence. I would say about twenty minutes ago there was almost no one against it. Now, people are beginning to be crowded directly against this fence. They back right to the street in front of the
Lincoln Memorial, and are now crossing over to the
Reflecting Pool. And moment-by-moment more and more people are reaching here, and it really seems very, very likely that this crowd will reach all the way back to the
Washington Monument before the day is over.
Geesey:
Well, Al, I know you’re up on the steps of the
Lincoln Memorial where you can’t quite get in contact with a swarm of people who are now forming in front of the
Lincoln Memorial. Let’s switch to a site which is right down among them and Cal Nossiter right at the edge of the
Reflecting Pool has an interview. Cal Nossiter.
Ferguson:
This is Andy Ferguson, George.
Geesey:
Oh, welcome. Welcome to
Washington. I might explain to the listeners that you came by bus along with some of the demonstrators from the Boston area.
Ferguson:
Yes, I did and first of all, George, it was quite an exhausting trip.
Geesey:
What time did you leave?
Geesey:
What did you do in Baltimore?
Ferguson:
They had planned a rally but they anticipated great crowds coming into
Washington at the time we were to leave
Baltimore after the rally. So they proceeded right after a slight breakfast to get here and even then we spent at least an hour and a half twenty miles outside of
Washington.
Geesey:
Yes, the police are reporting now that New York Avenue coming in from the northeast and the route from
Hagerstown, Maryland, which would be the western access into
Washington and also the southern route is now bumper-to-bumper with buses. So a lot of these people if they don’t hurry are going to miss some of these exercises. They’ll be here almost too late for any of the formal demonstrations, which might mean that we’d have an extension of these activities into the evening past 5:00 or 6:30 because certainly these people if they’ve come all this way aren’t just going to turn around at five o’clock and go back.
Ferguson:
George, I might add that although the trip as I said was exhausting the spirit on the bus was something extraordinary. Here people on the bus with little sleep were most during the night with songs and a gay atmosphere. We’re in perfect spirits this morning, George. It was quite unbelievable.
Geesey:
Do you have special instructions or what was the nature of even entertainment on the bus?
Ferguson:
They had planned earlier, the planning committee for the bus, to have some sort of program, but at that time at ten o’clock, it seemed not a good idea because today’s activities most people would be quite tired. But they did have some instructions as to what to expect tomorrow while in
Washington and the procedures for lining up as far as far as the Massachusetts contingents are concerned. I have an interview, George, with Augusta Brando who was a freedom marcher, but he will not be marching because he contracted polio when he was seven months old. And he made the trip but he will have to watch from the bus.
Geesey:
Is here there with you now?
Ferguson:
No, I have him on tape, George.
Geesey:
Alright, we’ll be getting to that a little later. Right now, the parade route is still the big scene of activity. Let’s go back to Jeff Guylick who is right in the middle of Constitution Avenue at 19th Street, actually between the Munitions Buildings and let’s see what he can see from that point.
Guylick:
George, the crowd does seem to be picking up now. It’s getting thicker and you can hear them singing now in the background, “Glory, Glory, Hallelujah.” It’s surprising while the crowd has somewhat thinned out they are singing and chanting, and where the crowd is thickest, they seem to be solemn and quiet and most intent just upon staying on their feet, keeping in line and marching along.
One thing that is particularly noticeable, every once in a while you see a sign that says, “We demand an end to police brutality.” But very seldom. Perhaps one out of every thousand signs. Most of them say, “We demand civil rights.” And other such things. Very few of them have mentioned police brutality which, of course, has been most noticeable at least in the headlines in the South.
And I think perhaps this is out of deference to the really phenomenal job that the Washington Police Departments, the military police, all the organizations under the head of the Washington Police are doing. They are keeping this crowd contained. They’ve been most courteous to everyone. There have been no unpleasant situations that we have run up against that we have noticed. As I walking down here from the
Washington Monument, there was one person that was sick on the side of the street.
And a crowd began to gather around, and within just a few minutes, there were literally 100 policemen there, which kept the crowd away so that he could get air as he was lying on the ground. They seem to be completely on their toes ready to move in anywhere and yet when they’re not needed they’re in the background ready to move in but not at all in the way. So that these marchers can march down and make their demonstration peaceably and happily.
Geesey:
Is the crowd still going at this leisurely pace or has the street filled up a little bit more?
Guylick:
It goes in bunches. Right now in front of me there are relatively few people. They’re quiet, they’re spread out, they’re moving along leisurely almost as if they were walking to catch a train or something. Then a few hundred feet up Constitution Avenue they are bunched up quite a bit. In the background I can hear them singing up there.
Geesey:
What’s the relationship between white participants and Negro participants?
Guylick:
Well, as I look in the crowd, I would estimate that perhaps there were four Negroes for every one white marcher. That’s just a very rough estimate. They are not bunched. They are certainly...Well, to use a hackneyed term integrated in the march. I would say about four to one. Now, along the sidewalk there seems to be quite a number of people, which it is my guess are local residents who have just come out to see what’s going on.
Geesey:
Perhaps some of the government workers who did come to work have filed out of the offices during his lunch hour and are trying to watch the activities first hand.
Guylick:
This is very true. Right here up in the
Munitions Building there are several thousand-government workers. Many of them have the day off but some who are working are taking their lunch hour right now and they’re kind of sitting out on the railing watching, sipping coffee or eating sandwiches, watching the march come down the street. Everyone seems to be quite relaxed.
Nowhere have I noticed any fear. There have been small children walking along and they seem completely happy and satisfied. No one seems to be at all afraid of the crowd or at all afraid that anything might happen. Of course, it’s very difficult to tell. It doesn’t take much to start something, but things seem very calm and they seem very serious right now.
Geesey:
Jeff, I wonder if you would pause just for a moment and allow us to turn the volume up so we might pick up the singing in the background.
Crowd singing.
Geesey:
It’s a little hard to distinguish what they are singing exactly. Let’s go now back to the very steps of the
Lincoln Memorial where I’m sure Al Hulsen can look down and survey this crowd from a much more advantageous point. Perhaps you could tell us of some of the other routes these people are taking beside the official march down Constitution. Al, are some of the people coming up the
Reflecting Pool area?
Hulsen:
Right. What I think is interesting, George, is that there are many, many people coming up Constitution Avenue and Independence Avenue, but now a very large mass is leaving the
Washington Monument and has reached about halfway to the
Lincoln Memorial. There is still a stretch of green in-between, but it’s a matter of minutes before it’s going to be absolutely filled.
Geesey:
And have you seen anybody coming down the southern route, down Independence Avenue where the five prominent Negro women are leading a group?
Hulsen:
Unfortunately, I’m not quite able to see over that way, George, but there are people coming and I presume that the five leading Negro women are with them.
Geesey:
Now, what’s the music behind you in the background?
Hulsen:
Well, the entertainment is beginning here. It’s simply organ music at this time, but we understand that at 12:30 it will be some further informal entertainment and the program to be led off by
Marian Anderson singing the National Anthem will begin at approximately two o’clock.
Geesey:
Is anybody leading the singing that I hear in the background? Maybe you have a mike there that we could pick up some of that from your standpoint.
Hulsen:
Well, we’ll give it a try here, George.
Hulsen:
Well, just at that moment it cut. But I think you can hear some chanting now. A group is coming up Constitution Avenue, and the organist has once again begun playing the “Freedom Now” song. We’ll try once again to get the crowd. You may remember this morning I mentioned that behind the actual headquarters tent where people were registering and getting further information, there was this mountain of signs and placards.
I would presume that a good 90 percent of those are the ones that we can see in front of us now at the
Lincoln Memorial. They all seem to be prepared. There are relatively few kinds. There seem to be almost no adlib signs, if we can call them that. None penciled scratched or scratched with charcoal. The only signs that seem a little bit out of place are those that we mentioned before the “Home Rule” signs.
We do see a lot of church signs, which indicates, of course, that many churches are backing this particular move. The buses that had encircled the
Ellipse early this morning are now visible from here in front of the
Washington Monument. Maybe we could get a further report on that from Malcolm. Are the buses finding enough places to park now?
Geesey:
Malcolm Davis, can you come in and describe that aspect of it?
Davis:
Yes, I can, George. The buses here certainly seem to have plenty of room as far as I can see. There are buses way in the background here lined up next to each other. But there does seem as though there would be a lot more room if the buses wanted to park here. I don’t think we have any problem with that. At this particular point, George, this huge crowd that was here a few minutes ago it seems to be with incredible speed been able to break up and move onto Constitution Avenue to walk down.
The Militancy of Birmingham in Contrast to the March
Davis:
We do have a gentleman sitting here in the Compound who has been sitting here very quietly for some time. And I’m given to believe that he was locked up in jail in
Birmingham, Alabama. And I’m going to ask him if he would tell us exactly about his trip here on this occasion. Would you give us your name, sir?
Reynolds:
I’m Mike Reynolds.
Davis:
And can you tell me where you come from?
Davis:
From
North Carolina. Am I right, sir, were you in Birmingham when there were problems there?
Davis:
Am I right also, sir, in assuming that you were one of those people that were locked up?
Reynolds:
Yes, I was arrested on the false charge of stealing an automobile.
Davis:
On the false charge of stealing an automobile. Can you tell me, sir, the difference between the attitudes of those people protesting in those areas with what you are actually seeing here today in
Washington?
Reynolds:
Well, the protests in an area like
Birmingham it’s much more militant as opposed to the protests here today. It give the appearance of being more of an outing to me. That’s what it appears to be.
Davis:
Do you think that the attitude, the very controlled attitude of the people that are here today, at least beneath the
Washington Monument, would you say that that signifies that these people are not as earnest at the people who were from the South?
Reynolds:
No, I don’t think this would be true because these people here have been drilled over and over again to have a mild type, a dignified type of demonstration. In fact, I think it’s been somewhat overplayed in the papers that violence was a great danger here. I don’t think it’s the great danger that the papers have played it up to be.
Davis:
Are you going to join the marchers or are you going to remain right here?
Reynolds:
No, I will be marching.
Davis:
Good luck, son and thank you very much. But just one small thing here, George that I might tell you that everybody from the stage area, all the celebrities have left now, and actually all that is going on here at present is a little entertainment over the loud speakers I think to the people as they finally leave this area, and march down Constitution Avenue. At this point, I would say that we probably have well maybe about 10,000 people still left here who are very slowly walking toward Constitution Avenue.
Geesey:
What are the PA announcements that we hear in the background?
Davis:
That is the MC on the stage introducing various people. Just speaking was a minister but unfortunately I’m not within range of the stage area now to talk to any of these people. I am actually on Constitution Avenue as far as I can go with the microphone cable, and I’m approximately I would say 20 feet from the actual March. And, that’s as close as I can go at this point.
There are a few people remaining behind who have apparently are more interested in staying here on the stage area and finding out if there’s going to be any more entertainment. But I don’t think there is going to be any more entertainment from here or any more celebrities at this point. They have all left down for the
Lincoln Memorial. I think George, that’s about all I can say at the moment from here.
Geesey:
Okay, thank you. That’s from the
Washington Monument grounds and, of course, the people are leaving there now are going up Constitution Avenue. They’re going down the southern route by Independence Avenue. And as Al Hulsen reported from up on the steps of the
Lincoln Memorial he can see them coming up along the grass areas, which are along the
Reflecting Pool. And we have a site located right by the corner of the
Reflecting Pool. So perhaps there is some activity there. Let’s go to Cal Nossiter.
Nossiter:
The earlier calm that prevailed here at the Reflection Pool has been dispelled although there is certainly no disorder. People are milling about with placards. One of the most striking which read, “No US dough to help Jim Crow grow.” And people are forming in a vast multitude on the steps leading up from the
Pool. Parade marshals are standing around to keep order, but as I said earlier, there is no sign from where we stand of any disorder of any kind. People seem to be in a kind of picnic mood. Although, again, all very relaxed and quiet. For further developments, we’ll go back to George Geesey and WAMU.
Geesey:
We’ll be calling on you again because you’re right down in the middle of what appears to be a multitude of people now assembling. Al Hulsen, you’re up on the steps of the
Lincoln Memorial. What is your viewpoint from that high perch?
Hulsen:
Well, as a predicted a few moments ago, George, the entire grass area from the
Lincoln Memorial of the one mile to the
Washington Monument is now filled with people. More and more people are trying to get in the front areas. In fact, some of the marchers are now in the trees in front of the
Lincoln Memorial. They will probably have the best view of all, with the exception of one group and I think that this is interesting to mention. This in some ways looks like a television, stage and movie production here.
Hulsen:
There are many platforms with all kinds of cameras, motion picture cameras, television cameras. I would say that directly in front of me there must be 50 to 75 newsmen, radio people and newspaper people. There is a platform directly in front of the stage, in front of the podium and this, unfortunately, is going to block the view of many of the dignitaries who will be sitting on the steps and the landing of the
Lincoln Memorial.
Geesey:
Have you been able to recognize any of these people? For instance, Roy Wilkins?
Hulsen:
Well, I’m a little bit puzzled because as we know the ten leaders were to leave first and the leading women were to leave on the other avenue. Now, on the stage there are still none of the dignitaries. I don’t know where they are hiding at the moment.
Geesey:
Well, judging from the reports we’ve had it didn’t quite follow that plan. It looks like some of the group just started leaving trying to get to the
Lincoln Memorial early.
Hulsen:
There are ushers here, many of them. They’re all dressed in white with blue bands across their waists and their arms. They’re passing out the official program. And we might mention that one of the first speakers, the person who will make the opening remarks is
A. Philip Randolph the Director of this March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. We may have mentioned earlier, George, that back in
1941, Mr.
Randolph proposed another march on
Washington and he proposed this to President
Roosevelt at the time to make sure that was no discrimination in defense plants during WWII.