What were some of the other things, and particularly I was thinking about the musicians. How important do you think they were?

I think they were one of the…

Say the studio musicians.

Well, the studio musicians, especially the Funk Brothers as they termed themselves later on were really a key element for, uh, the Motown sound. Because many times arrangements were actually not written. It was really sort of, uh, done in house in the studio. So therefore when they would come in, they used a lot of their own bass lines. Especially, like I know that you've probably heard of James Jamerson. Uh, he had uh, an outstanding way of playing the bass which probably changed the whole way that the industry looked at the bass lines of music and just bass playing in general. Because I think that prior to that they really looked probably at guitars, you know, pianos, the other, uh, instruments. But he was absolutely outstanding. James was, uh, you know, Jamerson was just fabulous, wonderful. I'm sorry that he's no longer with us, because he was really outstanding, and I wish that some of the accolades that people are giving him today that he would have perhaps been able to live long enough to hear them himself.

How would you describe what he did that was different and innovative?

Well, in terms of Jamerson's music, first of all, it was, the bass line when he began, it just really caught your attention. I mean it hit you to know that there was something really different happening with this music. He had a way that, when he would just start off, just the first three notes, you automatically knew after you'd once heard him play, that this this is it. And it was all basically in his head. Because I don't even think Jamerson, uh, read music. I think he just did it all by ear, you know, just God's natural given talent. So he was one of the lucky few.

And Benny Benjamin, was he also --

Oh he was actually -- You know, every one of those musicians, as far as the Funk Brothers were concerned, um, Benny Benjamin, uh, so many others were absolutely wonderful. There I don't think will ever be a team that way again. Because you know in the days that we began, nobody really got paid a lot of money. So people were doing it because they wanted to. They weren't, they didn't even have a clue that one day the industry would advance the way that it has, and that people would be getting thousands and millions of dollars in contracts. Our very first engagement, we went to the Apollo, we made 750 dollars for the entire week, and that actually was for six people, because we took Marvin, Marv Tarplin along, which is our guitar, was the guitar player and still plays at this time for Smokey. And out of that money we had to pay hotel, we had to pay for food, any cleaning that was done. And we also had to join the union because we, it was our first time around. So we did not, uh, we weren't union people, and you couldn't play the date if you did not join the union. So we had to pay a deposit, uh, of 25 dollars each. And every date that we went to, there was their man, waiting to collect the rest of the money. And uh, in fact I was looking, you know I'm writing a book now, and one of the things that I saw were our union cards, our first union cards that somehow I had saved. And so I, um, had one from each place that we worked. There was that first tour, which was about five weeks, when we were off for a little over a year. And um, I thought I would just perhaps include those in the book just to kind of show people what was happening and what we were doing.

Let me ask you, we're talking about the Funk Brothers. In those early days, were the Miracles in the studio with the musicians? Was everybody there together? Was that the kind of energy you don't see today?

Uh, yes. At the, in the early days, everybody was in the studio. The musicians, the singers, the writers, producers, everybody came. It took us our very first song all day just to do one song. Because at that time there was only two tracks. One was for the musicians, and the other was for the singers. So if anybody, even one person made a mistake, one note that was wrong, you had to start all over again. It was not the way it is today where the singer never ever sees the musicians, or the background people never see sometimes the lead singer. So it was a different, uh, it was different altogether. And of course there was a tremendous amount of energy, because you got an opportunity to meet these people and you know, know, get to know them personally and interact with them, and you'd have lunch, which you brought yourself usually. Because you know at that time, most of the people were still real young and had not, um, had their career really niched out for them at that point. So, um, most of them did not have jobs other than what they did with the company or recording. And the musicians at that time I think received about five dollars a session per session. So that was, uh, not a lot, needless to say. Uh, for us, Smokey when he first started working at Motown received, uh, eight dollars a week. Actually he started at five. When we got married, they increased it to eight dollars a week. Fortunately, at that time I had been working, I was a secretary, and I was a private secretary for the membership director of the, uh, downtown YMCA in Detroit. And I was making act…

…crossover, or was that just a natural outgrowth of the music.

I think Berry's idea was to have songs written that would stand the test of time, that would be played by many people, and that many, many people could enjoy the music. I don't think his intent was just actually to say this song is going to be one that's going to cross over. I think for most people who love music, they feel that music is colorless in that it transcends across every line, whether it's financial color or whatever. And therefore I think that was his idea, I think just to, uh, get some songs that all people could enjoy and love, not just for blacks or whites or, you know, any nationality. Because actually when you hear a song you don't really even have to know the language to be able to enjoy that song. And I think that, uh, for me anyway, I just, that was one of the things that really kept me in the business for as long as it did. Because I, being shy, didn't really want to travel on the road and perform live. I didn't mind if I was in the studio forever. But getting out front, it was a challenge, needless to say.

Many people talk about the Motown family and how it was also, everyone was so close and there was all this energy and yet a lot of love. Is that a myth or is that really the way it was.

Motown actually was a family. It was a true family. I think in those early days everyone really genuinely loved and cared about each other, and as each artist went on, uh, and became well known, recognized, had hits, I think everyone stood back like you do your brother and sister and really applaud, happy that this time that they had done whoever they may be at that particular time. And uh, I think that, I don't know, I can't tell you that that feeling was lost somewhere along the way. Because as many books have been published, people try to give that idea. But while I was still at Motown and while I was still recording, everyone genuinely, I believe truly loved each other and then there was no malice, no jealousies. People were just happy for each other. You know, because it was like well now she made it, he made it, and maybe next time it will be my time. So that was, it was a great feeling, it was a real bonding. And you know, I don't think that's totally lost because even today, when you meet a lot of the people that were there, when we get together it's still like we never left each other. And some of us actually have not seen each other for five, ten, fifteen, however many years. But when you see it's also like well here's my brother or sister come back home. And you know, you hug and embrace and people from the outside may think that, oh, it's just fake, but it really isn't. It's genuine. I think the people really love each other. I think they care and they're concerned about each other and their future and what they're doing in their lives. And I think that just that strong beginning of people getting together that that has not been lost. And today I think that, you know, um, Mary Wilson and for Diana and for Martha Reeves and uh, the Marvelettes, and all the ones, I'm speaking of the females at this point, we uh, we see each other from time to time for different occasions, and I tell you it's wonderful, it's actual-, actually a wonderful experience. Can I have a little water?

I'm Claudette Robinson of the Miracles. And it became Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Again?

Hi, I'm Claudette Robinson and I'm one of the Miracles and ...

I'm Claudette Robinson of the Miracles.

I wanted to pick up on the idea of the big happy family. There was certainly a lot of, especially in the early days nobody's making much money, and there was a lot of competition between people, but still you feel the environment was close?

I really feel that the Motown people, the reason that they were so close probably was the fact that everyone was just starting. Most of the people were just out of high school, just beginning their careers. So it wasn't the kind of competition that you would have had perhaps had you been a lot older. And uh, I think most of the people who were in the business really wanted to make that their lifetime career. Uh, there were probably just a very few people who didn't think of that as something they wanted to do forever. I was probably in that, um, minority. That was not exactly what I had chosen for my life career. I really wanted to be a teacher. And that was probably my goal. And actually I thought that being in the Miracles, we'd probably do that maybe two years and that would be the end of that and everybody would get back to what I considered a real job. Smokey at that time had, um, ambitions and, and goals of becoming a dentist or an engineer. I thought, well, you know, we'll do this, he'll have his opportunity to see what it's like and after that we'll get back to the real world, you know, finish your education and get on with life. Well, it didn't exactly happen like that, and of course I'm very blessed that it happened another way probably because he was able to fulfill his dream. Smokey actually always wanted to sing. He's been singing a very long time and writing songs a very long time.

What do you think is his gift as a songwriter? What's so special about a Smokey Robinson song?

I think probably his lyrics. I think he's very talented and he's a very prolific writer. Uh, his, he has a way of coining verses that's extremely different from most other writers. He can take, uh, something that he sees off of television. He can take something that, um, just an everyday life experience of someone walking around, someone who can be making a joke. And for him it can turn into a tune. For instance, one of his songs that he wrote at a baseball game actually, he and his dad went to a baseball game, and the song that came out of that was "I'll Try Something New." Well, if you listen to the lyrics of "I'll Try Something New" it doesn't have one thing to do with baseball. But as he was sitting there, an idea just came into his head and away he went. He's one of those people who has a very easy time of writing songs. He can take a piece of toilet paper, uh, many times, the way that he writes his lyrics, they're on everything, they're on notepads, they're on the back of matchbooks or the inside cover of matchbooks, they're on perhaps anything that you can write on, he may just put three notes or he might put three words. And in fact one of the things that I have sent to the Smith-, Smithsonian -- excuse me, let me say that again. One of the things that I have sent to the Smithsonian Museum was some of his lyrics and the way that he had written them and we put them in Lucite and let them use them for a time just so that, you know they could have that. Because, Smokey of course has been extremely blessed in terms of being inducted into the rock 'n' roll hall of fame and lifetime achievement awards for ASCAP. So he has done probably most of the things that one can do with their career. But he's still out there…

Do you know the background of "Shop Around," where the story of those lyrics came from?

Uh, no, I don't, actually. The story of "Shop Around" is one that, Smokey actually would always just sit around and write whatever he was feeling at the time. I don't know if at the time he had any particular idea in mind, because he was not supposed to be shopping. He was already married, so, whatever clues his pa had given him it was already too late. Because that song was written probably about a year and a half after we were married.

What about the riots in Detroit in '67. Did you at Motown feel that very strongly? Did that put a damper on the spirit of Motown do you think?

I think the riots of '67 didn't actually put a damper on Motown per se, but I think everyone at that time really felt a great concern for our country, where we were heading, what was happening, why was this happening. It was a time probably of just refocusing it, find out exactly where you were in life and what were your goals, what were you planning to do? That was the time also the Miracles recorded a song called "I Care About Detroit". And just trying to let people know that even though this had happened, there was still hope on the other side, and that Detroit was not going to go down and that we were all going to try to pull together and make it become something that they had not seen before.

Did you feel that the spirit around Detroit had fostered the spirit of Motown? Kind of a lot of, well, brotherly love and energy and respect between the races, changed as the '60s went along, did that get a different situation?

I think after the riots probably a lot of things changed. I think after that it was a time of people really beginning to pull together, not pulling apart. And that was really like a honeymoon period so to speak for a while. And something happened in the interim, because here we are in the '90s and it's almost as though we've reverted somewhat back to the prior '60 days. Because the '60s were really a time of people really coming together, really caring about each other, really trying to make a difference. I don't think it was a matter of what ethnic group you happened to be from, you know, white black whatever. People really seemed to just want to be together, make sure that, I don't think there were the racial prejudices that seem to be coming back into the '90s. And the only reason that I'm saying that is that as you watch some of these television programs, and you hear about all the hate groups that are forming, it's appalling. I mean it's absolutely amazing that here we are, almost the turn of the century, the year 2000, and we've reverted back to, I shouldn't say slavery days, but it's gone back instead of progressing. And I think it's a time we all need to stop and just take a look at what's going on and try to make sure that you're not one of those people that's perpetuating that kind of feeling. Because often people don't realize that they do have prejudices about different things. Some of it is taught in the homes, some of it is taught in the streets and of course some of it comes from the media. Because you hear so much of it and people stereotyping others, not really knowing and recognizing.

That reminds me of something I wanted to ask earlier about your tours in the early '60s through the South. Was that an eye opened to you in terms of the kinds of prejudice you encountered and the segregation you encountered?

The '60s in our first tour going to the South was probably somewhat of an eye opener. But not as much for me as it was for Smokey and the other guys. I was born in the South. I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, lived there until I was eight years old. Of course when you're very young you don't often know that prejudices really exist the way that they do. I remember my grandmother taking me to the movie theater and we sat in the balcony. I considered it a privilege. I thought it was great because when you're a kid, you know, if you can sit in the balcony and you can look down on the people, you're excited. And when we went to the bus and I'd get on the bus and we had to run to the back, I thought this is great, because you know seats are much wider in the back than they are in the front. So I thought we were special. I didn't know it was because we were black that we had to do those things. So, of course you know you don't really know, but then after I started growing up and you start hearing stories about many things that were happening in the South, and you say, oh, well, okay, that's why we had to sit in the back. Or oh, okay, I understand why we had to sit in the balcony in the movie theater. However, I still think it was the best place to be.

Did you have any frightening experiences on that trip?

Well, yes. Many, experiences. One of the things is that as we were traveling through the South, we were shot at; our bus was actually shot at. Many times when we wanted to get food they would not allow us to get off the bus. You could gas up but you could not go into the restaurants, because many of the restaurants you had to go to the back. The rest rooms were segregated as well. It was for white women, white men, and colored, and colored was anybody other than white men or white women. The water fountains were also segregated. The funny thing, I can remember a little child going over to the water fountain that said colored, and they were really disappointed because they thought that colored water was going to come out of the… out of the faucet rather than just regular water.