Tell us about going to see the Beatles arrive at JFK in '64. Was the press there?

So I was part of the press corps that greeted the Beatles when they arrived. The metal railings atop the observation roof seemed to bend with the weight of the crowd. All of the kids were invited to take the day off from school by disk jockeys who made a holiday out of it. And about 3000 were on the roof. And flying over, the Beatles were talking among themselves and talking about, well, why should America need us? Because they've got all the music. We, we, we've taken our music, why should they need us? And then they saw the crowd and the thought the crowd, they thought the president or somebody must be arriving. They didn't realize that this crowd was for them. And then, uh, as a member of the press corps, uh, it's like, when you're a member, the press is always ready to shoot somebody big, they'll shoot him down. And the press was ready to shoot down the Beatles. But the Beatles gave this press conference in the Pan Am area lounge. And they were so charming, they just charmed the, I know they charmed me. They really charmed everybody. They were so funny and so cute. They were like the Marx Brothers. They were just really hilarious. And they charmed everybody out of their, uh, everybody threw away his bag of vitriol. And uh, everybody loved them and it came out in the press that way.

Did Lennon envy, this is sort of down the road, did Lennon envy Bob Dylan's coolness. Because Bob had such a harder kind of public persona, and Lennon had to be, the Beatles had to be all sort of warm, fuzzy, mop-tops. Did Lennon envy that coolness?

Oh, well, John was always hard edged. When I first met and when I got to know him better in England, he always was hard edged. And uh, to me, he was the reflection of Dylan through the looking glass on the other side of the ocean. To me, I just thought he was, uh, just the, just the, you know, just in the land of left hand drive I thought he was the opposite of Dylan. And that's one reason why I wanted to, to get the Beatles, Dylan and the Beatles to get to know one another. I thought they deserved to know one another. They were children of the same era, and they were just, I thought it was very important that they knew one another. That's why I worked so hard to get them together. But Lennon had that same hard edge that Dylan had, uh, before, before he met Dylan. And of course when he met Dylan, there was, uh, they played their game, hipper than thou too. But there was a, they made sure not to step on one another's egos. But uh, Dylan's influence on Lennon is perfectly obvious from the songs Lennon wrote afterwards. Lennon wrote more personal songs about him and he dug deeper into his own self. And it was the same kind of, such as John had been doing, and that's pretty obvious from some of the music.

Dylan had sort of turned away -- he came to the forefront with songs like "Blowing In The Wind" and "Masters Of War". But he turned away from that and began working in much more surreal word streams. Did he ever talk to you about that? Do you know what I mean?

No, uh, you know, Dylan's lyrics kept amazing me as they developed, as they evolved. He just seemed to have so much wisdom. I thought he was an oracle. I thought that Dylan should reach the same audience that the Beatles were reaching. I thought everybody should listen to his lyrics. Because he was giving a message that I agreed with. And I thought he was important. And uh --

That message became a little more encoded. Like the lyrics to "Like A Rolling Stone" or "Mr. Tambourine Man."

Well, like I say, Dylan was always mysterious. And that was just part of, seemed to be part of his nature. Everything he did had a mystery to it. He never, like I say, he never gave anybody a straight answer that I heard. And he was always oblique and indirect and always tried to confound his audience. And I think he succeeded in doing it until today he confounds them. He still has this root audience that loved him back then and loves his, and still loves him. But, I mean people just don't understand what he's singing. They don't understand the lyrics. They just can't hear what he's saying anymore. He seems to have evolved into a parody of himself.

What did you think of "Like A Rolling Stone" when you heard it, that single?

Oh, that knocked me out. "Like A Rolling Stone" just knocked me out. It was just, uh, every time I hear it I get a thrill.

To turn back to the Beatles. Do you think the Beatles tired of being on the road. They sort of had this cute image in a way. After they like, when they initially arrived it was a surprise, but then after a few years it seemed like maybe they got tired. They couldn't be as serious.

Well, Brian Epstein overbooked the Beatles and it, they, it began to show. They just got tired of touring. And they were, the dates were too close to one another, they didn't have time to relax. And it was always on the go, on the go. And they, uh, they just got tired of it. And they got tired of being with one another. And they got tired of, uh, they started, they made remarks that I've heard that they got tired of being Paul's backup band. Because he's -- although Lennon was, Lennon ran the Beatles. Lennon was the captain and Neil Aspinall, the road manager, was his master sergeant. And it was Lennon kept his leverage over the other Beatles by using Neil as his fulcrum. Because Neil was, the other, the other Beatles would tell you that Neil was the 5th Beatle. If there was a 5th Beatle, it was Neil, it wasn't anybody else. Not Murray the K certainly.

Do you think that was why they stopped touring? Why did they stop touring?

They stopped touring because they were just tired of touring. And the, the, they were having too much internecine difficulties.

What did you make of the movies, like "A Hard Day's Night"? Did you feel like that gave a good sense of who the Beatles were?

Well, they, when they came over in the movies the same way they came over at the press conference at the Pan Am lounge. They came over like the, uh, the, uh, the Marx Brothers. They were just funny, they were just light, they were just entertaining. I remember when I was at the opening of "Hard Day's Night", yeah, "Hard Day's Night" at the Liverpool opening. And uh, it was a return back to Liverpool after all the success. And they were worried on the plane going to Liverpool, they were worried about how the hometown would greet them. And the hometown revered them with open arms. I mean there was a reception at the, I believe it was at the city hall. And to get through the crowd, I mean at one point the crowd was so crushing that I thought that Lennon was up against the edge of a table, and the crushing against him, I thought he was going to get cut in half by the edge of table. And that, Mal rescued him from that situation, Mal Evans.

I want to go back to Albert Grossman. Can you just give me a sense of what he was like as a person? Sort of talk about him, how he had different sides. If you would describe Albert just as a person, what kind of man was he?

Well, you couldn't put your finger on Albert Grossman, because, uh -- for example, I loved him and I hated him. There were things about that, you know – [sighs] For example, there was a guy I worked with after I was living in Woodstock and helping Albert at Bearsville. There was a guy that was working with Albert who left Albert, he screwed up. And then, uh, Albert took him back. And I was mad at this guy. He's a friend now, but I was mad at this guy at that time and I said, what are you taking him back for. And he says, well, don't you believe in rehabilitation?

What about at that time in '63, '64, did you see both sides of him then? Someone who had a soft side and a hard side? What were your impressions about him?

My impression of Albert was I was a little bit jealous. I didn't think, I thought I was smart, and I thought, and I couldn't understand why, I thought I was much smarter than he was, and how he had all the success and I didn't.

What did you think of "Like A Rolling Stone", the single when you first heard it.

Well, I thought it was magnificent, it was inspiring.

Can you say "Like A Rolling Stone"?

Well, I thought "Like A Rolling Stone" was magnificent.

I thought "Like A Rolling Stone" was magnificent when I first heard it. It, it, it had such grandeur. It's really a song for the ages. It really has tremendous lasting qualities. It just, it, it, it has such a magnificence to it. I mean, I just, I hear the opening bars it just kills me.

I was talking about how Dylan was perceived as a leader of the youth, especially of the youth movement. And people wanted to know what did he think about the Vietnam War. And they wanted him to have answers, to see him as a leader. Did he like that role or did he turn away from it?

Well, Bob Dylan, at the, at the same time he seemed to be looking for fame, at the, he was trying to dodge fame. He didn't want people to get in his private life. He didn't, he didn't want people to be tugging at his arms. He didn't want to be recognized wherever he went. At the same time he wanted it. So he was conflict, he had conflict within himself I'm sure. I mean lately, uh, though I haven't spoken to, or he hasn't spoken to me in a while, lately I've heard he's telling people that fame is a curse. Which makes me think of something I once read, that Tacitus way back in the days of Rome that to despise fame is to despise the virtues by which it is acquired. I don't know, you know, it's like, um, Bob always wanted to be solitary or always want to be private. And at the same time, he liked the, the, the, the wealth and the, uh, uh, and all he perks that he got as somebody who was famous.

The meeting between Bob Dylan and the Beatles has great symbolism in a way, has a lot of meaning in terms of the history of Rock and Roll, two very different paths crossing, and you can say a lot of things came out of that symbolically. Can you just talk about that meeting in those terms, and do you feel that way?

Well, I'm proud to have been there. And I know I worked hard --

Can you start over.

I'm, I was proud to have been there in that room at the Delmonico --

Like I say, I was proud to have been there in that room at the Delmonico Hotel. I was proud to have played a part in getting Dylan and the Beatles together. I knew it was going to be important and it has been important, and it has an importance, a lasting importance that's going to last through this, the end, the rest of this century. The Beatles and Dylan had a profound effect on our society and our culture. And they continue to do so.

Did the Beatles and Dylan affect each other as well as affecting the world?

Well, I knew that the meeting, the meeting that Dylan and the Beatles to meet would have an effect on one another. They would have an effect on one another, which they have had. They've influenced one another tremendously. And uh, and, and, and, they've influenced the times, the times back then, and they, and their influence is continuing to be felt through the end of this century and beyond.

I was assigned by the Saturday Evening Post to write a profile of Bob Dylan. And he chose Chumley's to meet him as a place, as a meeting place. Chumley's was a literary bar in the West Village. They have the walls are lined with book jackets written by people who used to get drunk there. I don't know why he picked Chumley's. I haven't been there since, I don't know if he has been there since. But uh, I found Dylan very reticent, very mysterious, uh, very non-talkative. And he told me stories which, uh, he told me something about uh, being at Central Park carousel with a woman who was the girlfriend of a friend of his. And I just could never make out what he was talking about. As a matter of fact, I don't, I don't think he's ever given anybody, I don't think I've ever heard him give a straight answers to anybody since then. Certainly not to me. And uh, but he was, as I say, he was mysterious and, but there was a quality, he had an oracular quality, he had a wis-, quality of wisdom that, that, uh, fascinated me and made me want to hear more and made me want to be with him more. And at that time I thought uh, I could see myself being in some kind of movie in the future about these times that I was living in. Such as the movies they had made about Van Gogh, or Toulouse Lautrec, which had a big influence on me previously. And I just felt like I wanted to be a character in that movie and this was a chance for me to be a character. And that's why I loved hanging out with these big stars, it made me feel important. And I loved the idea of getting Dylan to meet the Beatles, and I introduced Allen Ginsberg to Dylan. And I sort of networked everybody. I, uh, I was the invisible link. Everybody forgets about me now, but I was there.